| Wednesday,
October 14, 2009
The average federal worker makes $75,419 a year, while the average in
the private sector is $39,751.
I’m sorry. This is so blatantly, horribly misleading
or false that I have to ring in on this one. I am going to attach the
current pay scale for Federal workers and I can tell you that the percentage
of employees who hit the upper levels is incredibly small. Whoever came up
with this figure needs to be drug in front of the rest of the media and
exposed for the absolute liars or sensationalists that they are.
Sadly, a huge amount of people will look at data like
this and not understand the difference between average and median data, but
the data referred to in this has to be skewed beyond all recognition.
I worked for the federal gov’t for approx 10 years and
have been out for around that long but I did get to the GS-13 level and I
can tell you that this was a very high pay level and not easy to achieve.
Bill
As I have now noted where this was posted, the
number sounds high even if you assume full employment until retirement and
factor in the retirement benefits plus all other benefits. When I was
offered GS 13 to be a systems analyst for the Army Aviation program back in
1972 the annual salary was pretty good, but no more than I had been making
in aerospace. (I turned down the job with regrets because I had been given
the post of science correspondent for Twin Circle, a National Catholic Press
publication, and it paid enough that I could afford to try to become a full
time writer; that's another story and somewhat more complex than it sounds.
Had I taken it of course I would be long retired by now, presumably at least
a level above what I entered as.
My actual point was that given the uncertainties
of the market, even if salaries were equal in federal service and private
sector, as a career choice taking the government option is a pretty good
deal, particularly for the kind of people who read this.
Also, do not number me among the anarchists. I do
not think all government activity is useless. I do think that civil
service is subject to the Iron
Law and this will be the case with even the best of the government
agencies: look at what happened to NASA, from Apollo to the present.
Bureaucracies are necessary, and some are vital. Possony and I were
working on The Strategy of Progress when he died, and one of our essays
was on the need for bureaucracies such as Animal Control and Sanitation as
well as the more glamorous first responders. There are some jobs that must
be done by government, and government has few weapons beyond bureaucracy.
Most people who work for government are certain
that what they do is helpful. Few, I suspect, think that what all of their
colleagues do is quite so, or that their department is particularly
efficient at the task. Sometimes that doesn't matter: operating grocery
stores and Post Exchanges in Europe during the Cold War comes to mind. It
wasn't done very efficiently but that wasn't the point. The point was that
the military would have to do those jobs in time of war or greatly
increased tensions, and it was better if they had already learned how to
do it before the shooting started.
At some point I ought to do an essay on necessary
government functions and control of bureaucracy; I still have notes from
The Strategy of Progress project that was scrapped when Possony had his
stroke and was incapacitated. I couldn't finish it alone without devoting
full time to it, and it wasn't going to pay enough to make a living. I
regret that, and I really ought to scout up the notes. We were working on
this at the dawn of the computer revolution; computers have changed things
since then.
In any event, I do not have contempt for those
who chose to work for government. I am concerned about the development of
these institutions as the Iron
Law inevitably transforms them, but I wasn't speaking ironically when
I noted that one ought to consider such work as a career choice. There are
times when I regret that I didn't go to St. Louis to work with the Army's
development of air resources. Part of my job would have been to help the
Army vs. the Air Force in mission definitions. This is technical work
demonstrating effectiveness from combat mission results -- but the result
would have been papers and policies, which would affect real lives and
real battlefield outcomes.
===================
A long time subscriber notes:
Apples and Oranges and the Iron Law
Dear Jerry,
I am one of those monstrous government employees. Last
year my tax return shows I made 43K, With 20+ years I don't feel bad that I
made 4K more than an average that includes fast food workers still in
school. These surveys really don't look at the "average" civil servant. I
work in support of a constitutionally mandated purpose. I have been every
bit as dedicated as one could wish.
I will grant you that just looking in and around the
beltway will give a skewed view of just about anything, but the "average"
worker around here is pretty impressive.
Contracting out services more complicated than
janitorial work, on the assumption that private contractors would be cheaper
and more effective hasn't worked out that way. What it has done is move the
naturally lower paid jobs completely off government books. Janitors, office
support, most of the blue collar and support level white collar jobs are
just not in the mix any longer. There are far more professionals in our mix.
Now, looking at a proliferation of activities that
maybe ought not be done by government at all would cut the overall cost. But
most of us where I work, at least, have some element of pride in what we do
that keeps us here. We also value that we, at least until today, could
depend on having health benefits and some stability. We are often offered
MORE money to go private and many do. I turned down several private offers
because of health bennies. Later because I am under the old pension plan and
have too much invested to start over at my age. (We'll see what happens if
enough survives until retirement)
I am grinding out my heart until I reach retirement
age as Base Realignment and Closure Act (BRAC) and "reinventing" government
required more college degrees and forced med away from the jobs I was
"Grandfathered" so as not to need that degree. I won't say that some of
those bases shouldn't have been closed because many needed closing. But BRAC
changed the mix too.
There are most certainly deadwood employees in
government. Don't kid yourself, they exist in the private sector, too. Just
look at banking and Wall Street even before they became deeply mired in
government influence. Ever work for a family held business? I have, Uncle so
and so sits in his office all day smoking because no one will fire family.
The issues in Civil Service lie with the "leadership."
They lie with inventing new agencies with highly paid top dogs and lowly
paid support personnel.
Just try and find and apples to apples comparison.
This has been a point of discussion in sites frequented by feds for years.
Anyway, thanks for letting me rant. I have a danged
virus that is keeping me down in spite of all attempts otherwise. This has
been my high point today.
Take care.
Respectfully, Rose
I don't disagree, but when Uncle Joe fouls up or
more likely fouls off, it doesn't harm the taxpayers; the problem is the
eternity of the bureaus, and the inability of anyone to hold them
responsible to any standards whatever. I don't begrudge someone leaning on
the shovel once in a while, but I do contend that some of that laxity ought
to be factored into the pay scales. But note that I am not fundamentally
hostile to the workers as I am to the institutions which simply have no
mechanisms for self-cleaning. I doubt that anyone would disagree with that
statement.
I note just how hard it is to fire a teacher, as
an extreme example; but I also note the statistics on discharges from
government service for incompetence. I note that in California officials
of the Water Districts end up negotiating with the unions on salaries --
including their own salaries. I note that when civil service was
instituted, the Hatch Act really did try to separate the jobs from
politics, and did not allow unionization, nor allow participation in
politics. The notion of a public employee union holding demonstrations for
higher salaries seems bizarre -- but then I grew up in the days when civil
service people were "Hatched".
As to the "leadership" creating new agencies with
high salaries for the higher levels, just what did you expect? I refer you
to the Iron Law... It
really does apply to nearly every bureaucracy.
And see below
==
The Average Federal Worker's Salary
Interesting statistic you cited regarding the average
Federal worker making twice as much as the average private sector worker.
http://www.businessinsider.com/
henry-blodget-why-do-federal-workers-
make-twice-as-much-as-private-sector-
workers-2009-10
That is a good example of a statistic being
misleading. In the Washington, D.C. area, Federal workers earn less than
their private sector counterparts. That is one reason why so many Federal
workers leave government. One example - me - is that I now earn more in the
private sector as I did as a Federal employee.
The salary statistic comes from the "average." Federal
workers don't earn minimum wage and less at Wal-Mart, McDonald's, and Bill's
Dollar Store, so the average is higher.
The real question to ask is, "why are Federal workers
so poorly managed giving rise to such awful productivity?"
Another good question about poor management in Federal
offices, "why is most of the Federal government still using MS Office 2003?"
We could also ask, "Why is most of the Federal government still using
Internet Explorer 6?"
-- Dwayne Phillips - retired Federal employee
I will agree that averages are misleading. As I
said, the last civil service position I was offered had pay comparable to
what I had earned in industry (but with a bit more job security, of course).
Otherwise see the remarks above.
============
Protecting consumers from money lenders
Regarding protecting consumers from money lenders my
current experience is that if anything we could use a little predatory
lending right now. We are trying to purchase a used house. [details
deleted]. Our credit is almost perfect. The mortgage is 84% of the mortgage
company's appraised value. The location did not experience a material bubble
and house prices have been steady. 2 years ago the companies would have been
falling over themselves to loan three times the amount we are asking for.
We were originally scheduled to close at the end of
September and things are still dragging along.
Every little stage now has to be double checked and
then approved by a committee.
If anything the current status is that lenders have
now gone overboard in being overly cautious from my experience. I don't
blame them for this. But to claim that we now need government oversight
those people really have their heads in the sand.
===========
Apartment tenants flying American flags facing
eviction
Dr. Pournelle,
This is nearly as unbelievable as the US Post Office
that flew the Mexican flag over the US flag. At this apartment complex,
diversity is the excuse given for the ban on displaying any flag, including
the American flag.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/64059697.html
From the article:
“Jim Clausen flies the American flag from the back of
his motorcycle…
But to Oaks Apartment management, Clausen said, the
American flag symbolizes problems.
He was told to remove the red, white and blue from
both of his rides, or face eviction.
And:
“Residents we talked to who had been approached to
take down their flags all told us the same thing: that management told them
the flags could be offensive because they live in a diverse community.”
Sean
This is but the beginning. You will find more of
this as time goes on.
==========
Benito Mussolini and MI5
Guess who gave Mussolini his start... <http://tinyurl.com/yjpwy8z>
-- Harry Erwin
Fascinating. I had heard stories but had not known.
Mussolini was very much in favor of the Great War of course. And had he
chosen the right side in WW II he would have had a seat in the Security
Council...
==========
Suspended 6 year old
<http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/
33289924/ns/today-today_people/>
Cub Scout utensil gets boy, 6, school suspension by
Mike Celizic
<snip>
First-grader brought it to eat his lunch with; now
he’s facing reform school
Dressed in a button-down shirt and tie and speaking
calmly and articulately, first-grader Zachary Christie hardly looks or
acts like the sort of kid who should be spending 45 days in reform school.
But, thanks to a zero-tolerance policy, that’s where Zachary’s Delaware
school system wants him to go after he made the mistake of taking his
favorite camping utensil to school.
A Swiss Army-type combination of fork, spoon, bottle
opener and knife, the tool has been Zachary’s favorite ever since he got
it to take on Cub Scout camping expeditions. “He eats dinner with it,
breakfast and everything else, so it never occurred to him that this would
have been something wrong to do,” the 6-year-old’s mother, Debbie
Christie, told TODAY’s Meredith Vieira Tuesday from Newark, Del.
...
And what has he learned from everything that’s
happened to him?
“To always ask before taking something new into
school,” he said.
</snip>
I suppose that is what every subject is supposed to
learn. But do we have to teach it at 6 years of age?
Braxton Cook
==
Good Lord in Heaven...
It’s a Fork, It’s a Spoon, It’s a ... Weapon?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/education/12discipline.html
Where have all the adults gone?
- Paul
He needs six months of reform school to make
certain he learns the real lessons of survival in life. It will do him good.
And when that doesn't work, try prison. That will fix the little terrorist.
The adults have all gone to Washington to help
rule this land of hope and glory.
===================w
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