| Friday, August
10, 2001
I will at some point collect the relevant parts
of this discussion into one place.
Dear Dr Pournelle,
Happy BIRTHDAY-
I hope this finds you and yours well. I enjoy your
site and your columns immensely.
Next time you see Larry Aldridge say hi for me. I
once worked for him here in Minnesota.( at Lucht Engineering)
Sorry to hear about Poul Anderson too. I really like
his stories ( yours too) and will miss his contribution to the Sci-Fi
world. Sigh.
A quick comment as regards Mr. Pobirs comments: On
the difficulty of Linux installs- Yes the average user will have trouble
with them. I submit that the casual PC user would also have difficulty
doing an MS install ( based on the number of hours spent fixing PC's and
questions I get from PC users/owners in my hockey association) on many
hardware platforms.
For example- My Dad was unable to get his Xerox
printer to work (M750) on the default Win2k install- Why? because Xerox (
after a year of 2k availability) didn't ship a driver for 2k. Stupid
vendor - Yes, but still an install problem.
Dad would have had to download 3MB of stuff (
actually I did and cut a CD) and install to get this going. Ditto the MB
vendors etc. The average home user has NO clue what to do if their
computer should require a windows reload. Most can't even tell you the
vendor of the hardware and the MS stuff doesn't ( shouldn't either) have
the drivers on the install CD.
One should note that MS spends a TREMENDOUS amount
of time and money perfecting installation software and process. Yet ALL
the PC vendors then spend even more dollars and man-hours getting the
"pre-loads" sorted out. If the same amount of time and money
were spent on Linux machines the installers and packages would perform as
well or better than the MS ones.
As regards Virii and Worms- MS software is the
target of all this because its: 1- easy to craft, release and propagate MS
based virii and worms. 2- the biggest computer OS target population on the
planet
We should all be thankful that these virii/worm
writers haven't melded some really toxic payload ( say a variant that
wipes the HD and Flash after 10 days of silent infection) in all the
latest round of hits.
As regards users keeping track of MS security
patches I direct you to Russ's comments on NTbugtraq as to how HARD it is
for a professional admin to try and keep track of the required patch set /
hot fixes. MS has NOT done a very good job on that front.
Sincerly, Paul R. Cole bdssprc@wavetech.net
o o o
Dear Dr. Pournelle,
You said, "I tend to think that Linux attracts
the kinds of people who will favor performance over usability."
I don't think it's a case of "performance or
usability", as I find Linux far more usable than Windows for the kind
of work I do. I do a lot of data processing/analyis and communications
work.
The Unix toolset and philosophy is ideally suited
for this kind of work. I frequently am able to extract and summarize data
from large flat files while talking to the client. More complex tasks are
readily implemented as well. The command-line oriented toolset is dead
easy to script, and scripts are dead easy to chain together into more
complex tasks. Unix pipes provide cheap and efficient multithreading with
ease.
The Windows toolset (Office, et al) is another story
entirely. The heavy dependence on the GUI drag-n-drop methodology can
really slow things down. I honestly can't stand to use it for any real
work. It's like driving down a back-country road -- stuck behind a farm
tractor!
So, I think that the concept "usability"
really depends heavily on the user and the task. For what I do, Linux
gives me maximum performance *and* usability. For Aunt Minnie, maybe
something else.
Best,
Gordon Runkle
-- It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster. --
Greg LeMond
o o o
Jerry,
I am waiting to read where you, Eric P and RBT go in
your discussion of where the personal computer market is going.
I own a WINTEL network in the office at my small
business, and we upgrade as new applications or new customer requirements
require. Just now I run an Intel PIII 800 MHz with the Intel 815 EEAL
motherboard that you and RBT recommended. The OS is Windows 2000
Professional, which I have found to be as effective and efficient as my
Mac OSs.
We have some customer applications that require DOS
as well.
The one area I have run into problems on upgrades is
in interfaces. When I upgraded my wife's iMac to a newer, faster machine
with wireless networking capability it moved her to USB. Left behind were
older serial connections. One was for her digital camera, so we are
anticipating the arrival by UPS of a combo SmartCard and Compact Flash
reader to work around the lack of a direct serial connectin from the
digital camera to the computer.
I have other hardware that talks to my Mac G3 via
the Apple Desk Top Bus, and yet another that uses the printer port serial
connection. I haven't talked to the manufacturers yet to see if they have
either a FireWire or USB solution.
jim dodd San Diego
o o o
subject: Windows Updates
Jerry:
Here is my dilemma, recently had to re-install
Win2K. No problem, install off CD, then download and install service
pack2, and finally install any updates found at
windowsupdate.microsoft.com. My question is this, is there an easy way to
find any updates Microsoft has released that haven't found their way to
the windowsupdate site? The reason I ask is that Microsoft takes anywhere
from 2-3 months to add any windows updates to their website. I have
several ways of finding security releases as they are released, since half
the web sites I visit mention new releases as they come out. I just have
no way of keeping tabs on what was released 1 month ago.
It seems that I am always operating with a 2 month
gap in security releases. I suppose the ultimate blame is mine for not
properly cataloging any updates I download post SP-2, but I had counted on
windowsupdate to be at least relatively current. Especially with the
current trend these days for hackers to find and exploit any security
holes found in windows.
rock on
dimitrios stathopoulos
I have not found appreciable lag in the updates
page? And there is a reply.
Dear Dr. Pournelle,
Thank you for everything. I have been a huge fan of
you since you were writing your adventures with Zeke, Zeke II, Adelle,
Adeline, and Lucy van Pelt :) long ago, in my home country.
Now I write you first because I want to thank you
for the stand you've chosen to take re: the Sklyarov case. I hope that
finally the corporations and the U.S. government may regain their sanity.
But second, I would like to comment on your casual
remark that the Linux users tend in general to favor performance over
usability. That was in connection with some remarks -rather daring and not
very guarded, IMHO- by Eric Pobirs, and a reaction to them.
You are right. Linux users, as a whole and in
general, tend to favor performance over usability. But let me qualify your
statement a little bit.
The proposition is entirely true if we identify
'simplicity' and minimalism with 'performance'. The existence of
distributions such as Slackware is proof of it. Linux users in general
abhor bloatware and useless bells and whistles.
However, the Linux community has also made great
advances in the area of usability. A reader's comment about the usability
study of the GNOME desktop environment, by Sun, is on the track. And there
is also the K Desktop Environment. Dr. Pournelle, have you ever tried to
use KDE 2.1.x? I was a "mixed bag" user, using Linux for
learning and hacking, and Windows for the everyday tasks, until I got KDE
2.1 some months ago. That did the trick and now I am a full Linux user.
KDE is such a great, powerful and friendly environment that perhaps can
make that same trick to many more users like me. I would encourage you
-and would urge to Eric Pobirs- to try it and 'feel it'.
There is another trait in the 'usability' field that
is very strong on Linux and very weak in other OSes: respect for the user.
Right now I am using Kmail as my email client. It is fully graphical, has
a nice set of rules, and whatever. But also *it allows me to disable by
default the HTML rendering* of all messages. In this way, I can be very
confident that the annoyance and the security risks inherent in the HTML
code are dealt with. Try to do that with Outlook, Outlook Express,
Netscape Messenger, or even Mozilla Mail. If a sender issues an email in
HTML format only, you're stuck with HTML rendering. with the exception of
Kmail which is a Linux mail client.
Besides that, I surf the web with Konqueror, the web
browser and file manager of the KDE environment. It is small, capable, and
fast. But its two most noteworthy features are related to consumer respect
also. First of all is kcookiejar, with manages cookies with a database
that has permissions stored for all websites you surf. If a website you
surf for the first time sends you a cookie, a dialog pops ups asking you
what to do. You can choose between allow or reject: only that cookie, all
cookies from that site, or all cookies. The second important feature is a
checkbox in the configuration dialog that allows you to disable
window_open() in JavaScript, so all the annoying popups are gone. Without
editing some arcane config file. Without downloading any bloated, third
party software.
That is why many users are migrating to Linux. Linux
is an operating system that despite its rough corners seem to treat its
user with respect. That is usability, also.
I would like to disagree with Eric Pobirs about the
no-no of a Command Line Interface. You, Dr. Pournelle, know command lines
very well since your CP/M days and perhaps before. I do, too, and I am
pretty sure you will be prepared to say that as an average computer user
of Windows, sooner or later you will have to face someday a command line
for some emergency procedure. In that case I would ask: would you rather
have the full Linux system with bash and all the utilities and the online
documentation, or the C:\> prompt? I agree that an average user should
not be *forced* to use the command line for getting any job done, but if
so, whose command line is friendlier?
There's another twist to that. Historically, the
Windows GUI and kernel were put on top of the real-mode DOS, the one that
remains basically unchanged since the DOS 3.30 days. So, in the Windows
world, the only way to take advantage of the full power of your processor
was -and is- to use the Windows GUI environment. But Linux is an OS whose
command line does not have that constraint and so, there are plenty of
command-line or console apps that can get the job done and are *very*
friendly, even for a novice user. So, and perhaps you may agree with me on
this, a command line is not and should not be taboo.
Well, enough of my writing. Sorry for consuming your
time and your patience with this, and thanks for your understanding.
Yours,
Eduardo Sánchez,
-- Eduardo Sánchez Th.M. student, Calvin
Theological Seminary
--------------------------------------------------------- "Ierusalem,
Ierusalem, convertere ad Dominum Deum tuum!"
I like command lines for some things too, but as
memory fades it is maddening to try to open a file to edit and get nothing
because I typed in the name incorrectly. Easier to point and click. I
liked COMMANDER back in DOS days for exactly that reason. Commander was
GOOD ENOUGH since it had both command line a a point and shoot. Icons
aren't all that interesting. Point and shoot is.
Jerry,
Microsoft has forced more upgrades for its software
with file format changes than it has for new features. That's especially
true of the office product but it also pertains to the OS. For example,
several programs now require IE5.5, although that product differs little
from IE5 in functionality while being demonstrably less stable. Even
windows controls in DLLs are changed substantially, rather than replaced
with different named components or having functions added to allow allow
backwards compatibility.
Still, the true theft's commited by Microsoft or in
its regular decision with the last four versions of Office to change the
format for DOC and XLS files. Technically, this last change to XML does
apply, but the concept is the same. And it's no coincidence that releasing
total control on file format is where Microsoft started its stance to go
to the subscription models. Up until XP, it was maintaining the Office
revenue stream by selling the latest version of the product to big
customers, who would then send v97 files to users of v95 and then v2000
files to v97 users. The small guy usually had no choice but to upgrade
too. XP has the now standard file format change, but it will be the last
to be dictate by Microsoft.
And it's the file format issue that has had as much
as anything to do with the reluctance to give Linux and say StarOffice a
chance. As long as StarOffice is slightly buggy (although usually no worse
than a point-oh release of a MS product) AND has problems reading the MS
Office file format of the moment, there's NO chance of Linux gaining a
position of trust. With XML not the moving target Office file formats
WERE, StarOffice has a chance at compatibility. And with that
compatibility, I think it might have a chance to gain a foothold it hasn't
deserved until now. Combined with the fussers and fidgeters at home, the
foothold into the business community might start to create the critical
mass to get Linux really up and going.
Don't overlook Kylix's ability to bring a popular
RAD programming environment to the linux world also.
Until Linux is the alternative it WILL become, I'll
join Bob Thompson and others as non-users of XP. I don't need anything it
has to offer. At least I hope not.
GM
Gary Mugford Idea Mechanic Bramalea ON Canada
I will reserve comments for a while.
A Roland pointer, with the heading "Utter
Contempt"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20894.html
--
---------------------------- Roland Dobbins
<mordant@gothik.org>
Indeed
And
Dear Dr. Pournelle,
Take a look at the picture gallery in http://www.rawa.org
. The site also tells how these pictures were made, by whom, and what
happens when they are caught. Any resemblance to practices of our own US
government is the conclusion of the reader, arrived at independently and
without my help.
regards, William L. Jones wljones@dallas.net
I do have to say that I don't find that kind of
malice in the United States. But power seekers are power seekers, and
empires have to mind everyone's business. In Adams time we could say
"We are the friends of liberty everywhere but the guardians only of
our own." Today we sacrifice our own liberty to be involved in doing
good everywhere. Let's hope it's worth it.
On Another Subject:
Jerry,
Perhaps a box on your site that takes would-be
question writers directly to google?
Here is a google return on the query
<3 phase AC machines for students>
http://www.elmomachine.com/turbo_500.htm
As an old Navy electrician, I can attest to how much
fun they are to play with, but even 50 volts and the right conditions can
yield 100 to 200 mA through the chest -- that will stop the heart...jim
dodd
The Rest of the Story:
Dear Dr. Pournelle:
Just thought you might like to know the rest of the
story on the 18 year old National Honor Society student who was banned
from her high school graduation and faced serious felony charges for
having a 5" kitchen knife in her car in the school parking lot.
The State's Attorney basically said 'I can't prove
she knew it was there, so I'm dropping the case.' She still didn't get to
participate in her graduation ceremony, and had the interesting experience
of being arrested, booked and released on bail before common sense
prevailed. Or maybe the firestorm of web activism had something to do with
it. This link:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b0d689a77a3.htm
leads to a message board with a lot of back and
forth about this incident, including lists of the US mail, e-mail, web,
etc addresses of the principal, the sheriff, the state's attorney, etc.
For a brief recap of the story and final outcome,
this link works:
http://channelonenews.com/feature/2001/06/20010605_3/
Tim Morris
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately
explained by incompetence.
On Ricochet:
The auction of Ricochet wireless, in it's current
form will mean the end of an incredibly useful method of wireless access
to the internet - perhaps the only practical methd that could be available
within the next 5 or so years.
Other methods that are proposed are far more
expensive and are mostly captive methods of the TELCOs, the companies who
have put virtually all DSL mid-tier players out of business. Ricochet was
independent of the phone companies. While they had no understanding of
their customer (advertising 75 dollars per month to college students was
senseless) and over-built their network (Ricochet modems would work for
miles outside of stated coverage areas) they were finally beginning to
understand what they needed to do to survive when they ran out of money.
Metricom was running tests of marketing and advertising strategies in
Dallas, Atlanta, and San Diego before finally shutting down. Testing a
marketing campaign must be a first in Silicon Valley.
Their product worked, and worked well indeed.
Auctioning Ricochet at this point will kill the best national wireless
broadband devised to date. The court documents show an intent to auction
the spectrum separately from the infrastructure, which will effectively
kill the viability of the modems, pole top units, and gateway. I urge you
to discuss in the press the value of someone "taking over" the
entire Ricochet system, in toto, so that it can continue to provide a
viable alternative to what will shortly be a TELCO monopoly of all
wireless broadband.
Bill Kennon
Not much I can do but cry...
More on Linux:
Jerry,
Since there's been a lot of sturm und drang lately
about Linux vs. Windows I thought you might find my tale interesting, or
at least relevant.
About a month ago I began gathering parts for a new
workstation to replace my 3 year old Celeron system. I decided to give
Linux a whirl on the new system, since I could keep Windows going on the
old system during transition and not risk any downtime. I checked around
and determined that I could do everything I needed in the Linux
environment, except use my Quicken and Quickbooks. But those applications
are supported under Win4Lin, and I figured that at worst I could run them
via a terminal session off my W2K server.
I started working with PCs on a Tandy 1000SX,
running TandyDOS 3.2, ran through DR-DOS, DesqView, ran OS/2 for several
years, and still depend on the command line even in Windows; Linux held no
fears for me. But I went into the project with a certain 'hassle budget'
in mind; if getting everything working on Linux became too much trouble,
off it would go, to be replaced by Windows. As someone once said, people
don't buy computers to run operating systems, they buy them to get work
done.
After a few misadventures with online vendors (a few
are very good, many mediocre, and a few are very bad, but that should not
come as a surprise) all the parts were finally in one place and I got the
machine built. I allocated 5 GB of the 40 available to Windows 2000,
planning on a dual boot system, and let Windows install. It didn't
recognize my sound, video, or network, but I had the drivers handy and was
up and running pretty quickly.
Then came Linux-Mandrake. The install went very
smoothly, recognizing all my hardware and installing a graphical boot
manager so I could dual boot between Windows and Linux. I was impressed.
Then I tried to load VNC, which I use for remotely managing my own and
clients' servers. The package would not load off the CD. Hmm. Tried a few
other packages. Nope; corrupt package messages. Hmm. Perhaps the packages
CD hadn't burned right. It took only a few minutes to FTP the ISO image
over to the new machine (which had a 16x Plextor burner, very nice, and
far superior to the 2x in my old machine), but then the fun began. I tried
two different Linux GUI based burners (which are just a front end to the
command line tool), and the command line tool, and could not figure out
how to get it to burn a CD from an image. I managed to waste one CD
burning the ISO image onto it as a file. Grumble. After about 45 minutes
of fooling around in this manner I cut my losses, booted into Windows
2000, installed the Plextor burning software, and had my CD in about 8
minutes (counting time to install the software; that Plextor is _fast_).
Back into Linux. The packages still would not
install. Try downloading the VNC package and installing from the
downloaded file. No joy. At that point I called it a night, and returned
fresh to the attack the next morning. No joy. Downloaded the generic
binaries from the VNC website. Success! Okay, I had email working in a
manner of speaking, could access the web and remote control my machines.
Time to move the new system out of the living room and into my office,
where I could hook it up to my main monitor (all this had been done on an
ancient 14" screen). My wife was thrilled to have the mess out of
living room, but now I was face to face with another problem.
The fonts were horrific. Depending on the
application, or the web page, they varied from ugly to completely
unintelligible. Sigh. I did a bit more research and determined that this
is a common enough problem that there's a Font Deuglification Mini How-To.
Well. Time went by taking care of other things, and at length I got some
Windows fonts imported into Linux and my display up to at least legible,
if not great, quality.
At this point about 4 days had passed with me still
using my old Celeron 464MhZ system as my main workstation while the nice
dual Piii-850 system idled between my efforts to hammer Linux into
workable condition. I still had not approached the matter of access to my
Windows network, printing, the bulk of the applications I would need, or
moved my data, and the CD burning issue remained unsolved.
My hassle budget had been reached. While I remained
confident that, if I had to, I could do everything I needed to on a Linux
system, I could get there quicker and easier via Windows. I wiped the
system, loaded Windows and began installing applications. The next day I
was able to start using the new system for real.
I was quite impressed with the parts of Linux that
worked well, but in the end the amount of work involved in getting it up
to the same functionality and ease on my eyes (and I don't just mean
pretty, but actual eyestrain) as Windows was just not worth the reward.
People will only put up with extra hassle to get _more_ than they would
have gotten without the hassle, and there'd better be a lot more. At this
point, Linux just doesn't offer enough more than Windows 2000; the
satisfaction of saying, "I'm running Linux" is insufficient
reward for most people.
--Robert Brown
Apparently Linux doesn't much care for us old
dinosaur killers (who grew up fighting mainframes and promoted distributed
computing...)
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