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CHAOS MANOR MAILA SELECTIONFebruary 1 - 6, 1999 CLICK ON THE BLIMP TO SEND MAIL TO ME Go to PREVIOUS MAIL WEEKS:
Fair warning: some of those previous weeks can take a minute plus to download. After Mail 10, though, they're tamed down a bit. IF YOU SEND MAIL it may be published; if you want it private SAY SO AT THE TOP of the mail. I try to respect confidences, but there is only me, and this is Chaos Manor. PLEASE DO NOT USE DEEP INDENTATION INCLUDING LAYERS OF BLOCK QUOTES IN MAIL. TABS in mail will also do deep indentations. Use with care or not at all. I try to answer mail, but mostly I can't get to all of it. I read it all, although not always the instant it comes in. I do have books to write too... I am reminded of H. P. Lovecraft who slowly starved to death while answering fan mail. If you want to send mail that will be published, you don't have to use the formatting instructions you will find when you click here but it will make my life simpler, and your chances of being published better.. MESSAGE FOR THE WEEK: Please keep mail as brief as possible. Which is to say after you have written something you think you would like me to publish, wait half an hour and go over it again to OMIT NEEDLESS WORDS, and sentences, and such like. Much of my mail is very interesting but too long to post... This week: HIGHLIGHTS:
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Monday, February 1, 1999
Your web pages do suck, but it should be easy to fix Bruce R. McFarling There are at least three types of people who assign web pages into the category of web pages that suck. First, those who feel that a web page doesnt hit the mark unless it has all the latest and greatest features that their browser and/or collection of plug-ins support. Unless a web page sings, dances, and generally dazzles at the same time that it is a stress test for computational resources, it sucks. I am not in that group. Second, those who disagree. They seem to feel that the Web is a forum for the promulgation of viewpoints that they agree with, and web pages caught in the act of cravenly serving the promulgation of the wrong viewpoints, suck. I am not in that group. Third, are the boring cross-platform fanatics, who want html to be what it was intended to be: a portable information presentation and cross-reference system. I am one of these boring dweebs, and yes, youre pages do suck in terms of cross platform support. They fall down in the most basic and what should be (for an author) the most natural of tasks: composing ALT tags to provide a universal means of expressing information that is originally expressed in a platform-dependent manner. Looking at your site, you have ALT text. But you have alt text like (and I quote)
Now, this all appears to be boilerplate, meant to be reproduced as many times as necessary. And I find it impossible to believe that "jp.jpg (13389 bytes)" is anywhere close to your best expression of what that particular image was meant to convey. In fact, if you can do a system global search and replace of
alt="emailblimp.gif (23130 bytes)" with alt="Email me at jerryp@jerrypournelle.com"then you will be getting a start on the only rule about ALT tags that everyone responsible for a web page has to know: ALT tags for images should serve as a substitute for the image, and the image itself should only be described in the ALT tag if presenting that image is the purpose of the page. If finding web tools that provide proper support for assigning useful ALT tags is a problem, or if you have been provided with tools which disregard the advice about appropriate use of ALT tags available from sources such as W3C on down, that would be an interesting story to come out of Chaos Manor.
I don't know what an ALT Tag is; apparently Front Page assigns the ones you don't like much. I am not at all sure what I ought to do about it, but more to the point, WHY? I can see how replacing some of the tags with their links makes sense, sort of, as it certainly conveys more information than a description of the file length; but this is the first I have hard from ANYONE on this subject, and I don't know why I should care what the ALT Tags say. Enlightenment welcome. == Jerry - Yes, I expect so, and Darnell says he'll do that one day; but he's both teaching and taking classes, I am trying to get out 2 novels plus columns plus keep this place going, and just now I don't think I can undertake such a major task. But yes, I agree, that's the right way to go. === About: libraries, webdesign, Linux. 11f From : Svenson, [ qjsw@oce.nl ] Jerry, I did pay by the end of December (98). I know you did get the payment because I got the January column URL mailed. But only on the 20th of January the money was actually deducted from my account. Guess whose money you got. A note on your discussion about libraries. The thing that the Libertarians who want to abandon libraries are right about, more or less, is the fact that most public libraries carry books (or music, or ) that are indeed cheap enough to buy by almost every body (although almost every body is not enough in my opinion). What they definitively miss is that books, even the non specialised entertaining types, become sold out eventually and then libraries become the only accessible places to get them. Apart from that, libraries are the best places to learn to appreciate other styles of literature and other cultures. If you transfer libraries to the private, un-subsidised sector only books that are popular will remain because others will not bring enough revenue. The end result is a library that indeed only has books that are cheap enough to buy. And a few expensive showcase pieces. You lose the variety which is needed to keep a society going. I notice you still get comments about you web design. I think it is just right so. It is just a bit too chaotic for a casual visitor but people that want to visit you will learn the place soon enough. This means you have a kind of filter build in. Only people that are interested in what you say and do will come back as it takes some effort an dedication to get at the hidden treasures. It is fun in an Adventure type of way. Another advantage of your reviews section (but also in your mail and view ) is that there is a very wide range of interests going from science-fiction to opera, covering history, education and computers. Most other sites are either highly focused and cover one area in depth or are unfocused and wide but easy going and casual, newspaper like. On the net we need both types of site of course but yours is more thought provoking. I visit it in the morning (in Europe, so your side of the world is just closing down) as a kind of cerebral fitness exercise. So <strong> DO NOT </strong> reorganise or divide it in topic pages. In a good stew everything is boiled together to blend the tastes. You may split up more (ex one mail page a day) to keep the site fast. I installed Linux (Calderra 1.2) recently. It went faster than Win98. I installed StarOffice 5.0 on it, equaly smooth. The problem is that I am lacking X windows server support for my Mattrox G200 AGP card so I am down to 640x480 at 16 colour. This is not really usable if you got used to 1024x768 at 24bit colour on OS/2 and Win9x. So once you get past the easy bits and want to set up a usable system the fun begins. For inexperienced users Linux can be an enormous time-sink but it sure is a way to get cobwebs out off the brain! BTW I originally installed it on my old 386 box, and old (1990) full tower thing (AMD386.40MHz, 8MB RAM, 200MB disk, Tseng ET4000, 14"display; a real speed king in its day) which I keep around because it is the last box here with both 5.25 and 3.5 inch diskettes. This went smooth enough, dual booting with DR-DOS 6.0, except I couldnt print or use the mouse, probably because the old I/O controller (a separate board in those days) isnt supported. Now I bought a new system (AMD K2-300 with 64MB RAM) and added a second harddisk (10GB totally) for it, when I told them in the shop that I intended to run Linux on it they proposed not to install Win98 which they normally install on all their systems. When I get time to do a reasonable review Ill send a kind of report of my struggles (). Ps Congratulations and good luck with your new car. Just dont test its rolling capacity too soon ;~) Svenson
The brain is a wonderful system, it recovers gracefully from input errors and it never needs a reboot. Mine however is permanently out of memory. . -- --
I like your notions about a stew. That seems to be what we have here
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Tuesday, February 2, 1999
you dont like much. I am >not at all sure what I ought to do about it, but more to the point, WHY? I can see how replacing >some of the tags with their links makes sense, sort of, as it certainly conveys more information
from ANYONE on this >subject, and I dont know why I should care what the ALT Tags say. Enlightenment welcome. What an ALT TAG is is the little pop-up box that appears if you let your cursor sit on a graphic (jpeg) for a second or so. How/why theyre used is to provide for those people who either a) browse with graphics turned off in the browser (this can speed things up considerably on graphics heavy pages) or b) use non graphical browsers (yes they exist and people use them) like LYNX (the original WEB Browser that ran on unix systems before the WEB became so highly graphics oriented) or c) are visually impaired and browse the web with text-to-speech enabled browsers. Frontpage, by default, puts in the filename and size of a jpeg for the text in the ALT TAG, but entering your own text is quite easy. In Front Page, right-click on the graphic to bring up a context menu. Select image properties from the context menu. Then in the pop-up config window you can enter text in the alternate representation section to put whatever you want in the ALT TAG. John
Searching for adventure on the Information Superhighway. Of the many responses I have received, this is the clearest. There's a problem here. As I surmised, it's "easy" to fix an ALT tag in the sense that it doesn't take more than a minute or so to open the file, go to the html source, find the code, type in the new designation (astute readers will notice I had already done that on the mail page on which I put up the letter about ALT tags), save the page, then publish it. Perhaps two minutes if I didn't already have something to do on that page. Alternatively I can find each image and change the properties; once again, I have to open the page, make the adjustment, and save it. This is "easy" but it is tedious, at a time when I am trying to break loose enough time to write up the AAAS report. I suppose I could go through, slowly, looking for ALT Tags and doing a global search and replace. That takes a while on this site, but it could be done. The real question is, is that a meaningful allocation of time resources? Just how many people care that much, given that this is the first indication that it's a problem? === You and Roberta might try to get in touch with the University of Chicago and work with them on their suggestions for preparing for The Core, for my money, probably the best undergraduate preparation for the thinking adult citizen an American college has ever put forth. Sadly, however, it is being diluted, in order for "Chicago" to be known as a more "fun" school. Also, in the way of Cultural Literacy, there is Hirschs seminal essay on just that subject. I did a search on "culture" and "literacy" at Amazon.com and came up with this URL: Included there is a book called "_Books to Build On_," also by Hirsch and his partner in the "Core Knowledge Series," John Holdren. This book can be found at this URL: Also, to the issue of your difficulties in formatting and posting to your Web Page (since you are now running a REAL OS (LINUX)), you might try Tamus rather creatively brilliant WetPerls (URL: http://people.physics.tamu.edu/jsmith/wet-perls/ <http://people.physics.tamu.edu/jsmith/wet-perls/> ) for a look at how this might be solved. You also might enjoy his link to the "Reagan Leadership Society" (grin). Best regards, Mike Cannon, Michael [michael.cannon@us.landisstaefa.com] <<For revised linkage see Mail69.>> College level isn't my concern. I am worried that in the first 6 grades there is almost no link to Western Civilization (Hey hey ho ho, Western culture's got to go, and go it went) and not a great deal afterwards. There used to be a standard set of literary works -- Ruskin's King of the Golden River, Longfellow's Hiawatha, Scott's Lady of the Lake, Eliot's Silas Marner, Macauley's Lays of Ancient Rome (Horatius at the Bridge), Ticonderoga, Midnight Ride of Paul Revere (one if my land and two if by sea and I on the opposite shore shall be...) that everyone read before leaving high school and often well before high school. These formed if nothing else a literary heritage that could be drawn on by other writers. Once could assume that every reader had at least been exposed to concepts like the hospitality of the highlands (Lady of the Lake), the dangers of miserliness (Silas Marner), and some fidelity to home and country (Then up spake brave Horatius, the captain of the gate, to every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late, and how can man die better, than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his gods ) None of those were college level; I had most of those works in Capleville, Tennessee before the 8th grade. Now true: few of us enjoyed Scott on first reading. The stag at eve had drunk his fill? Who cares? But when you got to the summoning, with Roderick Dhu sending the fiery cross through the lands of Clan Alpine and the curse on those who failed to respond, it was pretty hard not to pay attention. And when Roderick shares his fire and his blanket with the stranger who he knows to be his mortal enemy, it's even harder. And perhaps one was a little bored when Roderick shows all the lands that used to be part of Clan Alpine's holdings and are now taken by others, and says "Seek other cause 'gainst Roderick Dhu", but I at least remember the scene to this day. Now if they could teach that in rural Tennessee in the 30's and 40's, why can they not now? We were certainly no healthier than children today. Until well into the 40's we were in the Great Depression and hardly wealthy; compared to what the average household has now, we would be considered to be in poverty. Our parents had to work, hard, and during the war that became even more severe. Yet we could read about the wild river moaning as it passed over TWO BLACK STONES, and learn about Earnest and the Great Stone Face, and it certainly did us little harm. Today's kids know very little history or literature compared to my classmates in rural Tennessee; and that disturbs me. I'll probably get over it. === Dr. Pournelle, I need clues. I wouldnt dream of asking you for the gory details, but, can you clue me in who to ask? Question is, what is the trick to hooking up an HP Scanjet IICX to a single, non-networked Windows 95a machine?
I am not familiar with any special problems. Can anyone help here? == Did you think Microsoft had run out of ways to make itself look bad? Think again.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/longterm/microsoft/micro.htm
-- Erich Schwarz [schwarz@cubsps.bio.columbia.edu] I think I have a slightly different take on this than most. It looks to me like a hideous waste of the time of some talented people on both sides, to no particular purpose. When it is all over, it will all be highly irrelevant...
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Wednesday February 3, 1999Bearing in mind the recent discussion about computer dealers who only offer Windows, the following URL provides a list of dealers who offer OS/2, and sometimes other operating systems, preinstalled on their systems. http://budgetweb.com/os2/preload.html Bob Griswold in King George griswold@toward.com Thanks! == I always knew my readers know everything: Jerry, I've just discovered your "View from Chaos Manor" and when reading your Week 2 comments you were wondering if there was a "return to where I just was" command in Word. Maybe this problem is already solved by somebody else but I didn't found anything on that subject in your Week 3 to 6 comments. If what you want is analogous to the "Return to a previous editing location in a document" command in Word, than you can use the "SHIFT + F5" command. This two-key command keeps track of the last three locations in your Word document where you typed or edited text. The "SHIFT + F5" command works in Word for Windows 2.0 and in Word 95. I hope it also works in Word 97 to which we are upgrading next month. I use this command on a daily basis when editing Word documents and found it very useful. I hope this can still be of use to you. Regards, Filip Verberckmoes e-mail : fverberc@janbe.jnj.com Hey, that works! And I didn't know about it, or if I did I forgot it. THANKS!
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Thursday February 4, 1999ODBC: _O_pen _D_ata_B_ase _C_onnectivity. Used by many apps to access databases not in their native format. Something installed ODBC drivers. If you installed MS Office Pro then I'm certain MS Access did it. You can go to the install program for MSO Pro and reinstall, refresh the install, or select just the ODBC for reinstall. That should/may fix your problem. You can also download the most recent ODBC drivers (and a whole lot more) from the MS site at: http://www.microsoft.com/data/download.htm You want the most recent MDAC file. I would start by trying the Office CD approach first though. You will get stuff you may not want in the MDAC download. I share your pain with your Windows configuration problems. It does seem that a minimal change can lead to lost hours, if not days. MS has done a good job of trivializing many operations, making incredible computing power available to the masses. Linux, OTOH, has a looonnnggg way to go in this regard. When you stated that installing Linux was not a trivial affair you were right on the mark. I think I'm a pretty sharp guy when it comes to PC's (and others would verify this) but Linux has really tested my mettle. It's a good thing though, because I feel it is forcing me to get back in touch with the machine in a way that Windows no longer (or at least rarely) requires. And, being a software developer, I take some (sick) pleasure in actually compiling pieces of my OS. Anyway. . . when you really think about it, all of those electrons buzzing about, set into action to do our bidding. . . well, I'm still amazed that any of it works. Especially as well as it usally does. . . Regards, Brian W. Harriger bharriger@austin.rr.com "Pray, as though everything depended on God, then work as though everything depended on you." R.N. Bolles OK, reinstall Office 97 Pro. That I could do. But nothing told me to do that! It just kept telling me my ODBC was bad. So how did that "go bad" to begin with? What in the world is going on here? I agree that it's astonishing that things work at all, and given all the legacy stuff out there I sympathize with Microsoft, but this is getting VERY silly, when all I did was move the system part for part to a new case. I should have taken more care with backups I suppose, but in fact would that have worked? And why is moving the boards around on the bus causing problems with ODBC? As to Linus, I get to that shortly, and yes it has problems, but then you EPXECT them. I didn't expect this. ===
AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE FOR NT USERS: Mr. Pournelle: I have been a great fan of yours for some time, and I used to read your columns in Byte magazine quite regularly. I run a small computer consulting company in Cambridge, MA that provides consulting services to large companies all over the U.S. I recently had some experiences with Diskeeper v4.0 and Windows NT that I thought you might want to know about. We recently took an older Pentium 133 computer that we had lying around and decided to make a FAX server out of it using Windows NT Wrkstn v4.0 and Symantec WinFAX Pro v9.0. We got the system up and running properly, and it trundled along quite happily for several months. We also resell computer hardware and software as a service to our clients, and one of the things we resell is Symantec software. We received a v1.0 copy of Norton Utilities for Windows NT, which we installed on our FAX server because we wanted to get the disk defragmenting features of Norton Utilities. Turns out this was a BIG mistake, as the v1.0 Disk Doctor program under Windows NT will scramble the FAT on a NT drive and leave it in an unrecoverable state. Ok, so having learned our lession - we rebuilt the machine (took about 3 days over a couple weeks . . . hey, we work for a living...). Having read the positive things that you had written about Diskeeper, and also having had experience with Diskeeper under VMS on various VAXes &; Alphaswe thought, okay well format our drives with NTFS and use Diskeeper on them. Turns out this was also a big mistake. We had 3 disk drives on this system; C: was a 1 Gb FAT formatted volume, D: was a 1 Gb NTFS volume on which NT resided, and E: was a 2 Gb NTFS formatted volume used to hold user data. We ran the disk directory consolodation feature on drive C: and everything worked great. We later ran the disk directory consolodation feature against drive D: and thats when DISTASTER struck again. (I must admit I was for a moment so annoyed, I nearly took the computer and threw it out the window when I found out what the problem was...read on.) The crux of the problem is that when Diskeeper goes to do the directory consolodation on an NTFS volume, it attempts to run CHKDSK against the volume before and after the consolodation. Unfortunately, the AutoCHK functionality in Windows NT (both server &; workstation) seems to have a serious bug in it that was introduced in Service Pack 4. When Diskeeper invokes AutoCHK, either AutoCHK or Diskeeper does something to the registry on the machine so that it winds up being permanently and unrecoverably corrupted. What the end-user sees is that the system comes up, and then when the blue screen appears before the system boots into the GUI and AutoCHK runs - the system simply hangs after AutoCHK finishes running. Pressing the spacebar to stop AutoCHK from running, stops AutoCHK but then hangs the system. We tried using the Recovery Disk built during the installation (and subsequently updated several times) to restore the system to a bootable state to no avail. (Turns out there are problems with using a recovery disk under certain conditions to repair a system, since not all of the files get "repaired" during a repaircheck out Microsofts Knowledgebase articles Q168015 &; Q158423 for more information.) Basically, we are now getting ready to rebuild this system for the THIRD TIME in three months. I think Ive had it with all of the utility vendors, since between them and Microsoftwho needs enemies? (Ive also recently had some serious war stories with Norton Anti-Virus v5.0 that Symantec has admitted are a problem, and havent been fixed yet... The Ultimate solution was to go back to using v4.0 of Norton Anti-Virus until they get the bugs in v5.0 worked out.) Executive software has also realized the error of their ways, since they have just released an update to v4.0 that disables the AutoCHK functionality so that disk directory consolodation can do its thing. Mr. Capps in Executive Softwares technical support department can confirm what I have stated above, and more information about this "undocumented feature" (sic) can be found in the Microsoft Knowledgebase articles Q173322 &; Q151376. I have been working with computers of all sizes and shapes since 1978, and it sure seems to me that the quality of the software coming out seems to be going down in proportion to the price of hardware going down. Although 10 years from now computers will be so cheap that anyone will be able to afford them, the software will work so badly that no one will want to. (mumble) In any case, I thought that you would want to know about this bug, and also let your readers know about it so that they might be able to avoid the horrible fate of having to rebuild their systems again.
(617) 547 - 5023 [voice] (617) 964 - 2367 [fax] Thank you. I have used Diskeeper for a long time, although not on as complexly configured systems as you have, and it has never caused a problem. This seems to be quite serious. I am not familiar with Golden Bow's VOPT for NTFS, having always used Diskpeeer for NT, but given Golden Bow's meticulous care to do no harm, I would be astonished if it did not do the job without that kind of problem. I haven't had any experience with NT viruses, so I can't comment on Symantec anti-virus for NT. I tend to use Dr. Solomon's for all virus, largely from habit now that Alan Solomon is no longer in charge; but it is a habit I have had no reason to regret. Up to now Dr. Solomon's like Golden Bow seem to take a lot of care to "first do no harm." == Continuing the discussion on Education: Anyone contemplating the education of the young may find Dorothy Sayers essay "The Lost Tools of Learning" valuable. Sayers makes a convincing argument for a return to the medieval "trivium," grammar, dialectic, and rhetoric, in that sequence, as a foundation for the abilities to think, communicate, and learn. The essay sketches a curriculum in which young children memorize grammar and other things, pre-adolescents practice the skills of logical debate, and adolescents follow a more and more individualized path in which in-depth knowledge, and the ability to synthesize and present results, is emphasized. Sayers sees this "trivium" phase of education ending at age 16, at which point the young person proceeds to either trade or university. In either case they have been equipped with much more than just a basic store of knowledge. The main point of their education has been to provide foundational abilities in language and logic that will enable both further learning, and rational participation in society. Early in the essay Sayers laments the inability of the products of modern (in England in 1945) education to resist the blandishments of advertisers and propagandists. Lord knows what she would think of the predicament of our media-drenched polity today. A copy of the essay can be found at http://www.quadrivium.com/sayers.html
Mike Juergens ( mikejuer@netnitco.net)I recall that essay. She goes farther than I have, and much of her advice is for the bright kids, but she also describes an education that used to be available to all the upper middle class as a natural thing.
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Friday February 5, 1999Subject: possible explanation of why ODBC is in Windows Dr. Pournelle, Realize I am not sure, but I think that the registry uses the ODBC component, which is why a basic Windows install includes it, It is one of those nifty features that MS includes, like Paint, or a browser, with their OS. I think that since the cards had been moved, it was a "new" system, and Windows began the Plug N Play shuffle. The ODBC version was not the one it was looking for, so it complained. Believe me, Windows 9X and Plug n Play and upgrading components on same can be a real pain in the nether regions. We here at my place of business try not to upgrade systems if possible, instead recommending a new purchase. Many of our customers are not tinkerers, and couldnt handle the stresses of the continuous restarting of an upgraded windows box. They would panic on the first PNP shuffle. Better to ease their mental pain. Now you know why resellers dont work on their friends machines, much like lawyers and doctors. George George Laiacona III [undead@duesouth.net] Interesting. I am still experimenting with why a stable system is now NOT stable, although the only thing I actually did to it was to exchange the location of two boards, the SOUND Card and the Network card. ODBC is still sending me plaintive messages, and the system will NOT SHUT DOWN PROPERLY, which may have to do with the ODBC mess. I have errands today, but this may turn out to be one of those problems that leads to a column. I suppose I ought to be grateful to Microsoft for giving me so much to write about, but == Subject: ODBC woes and the card shuffle Jerry, Just a brief comment on why your computer was confused when you did the "card shuffle" whe moved to the new case. The problem nay have been caused by your system. When the PCI bus was introduced one of the big points was that PCI cards would be "self configuring" when the system starts up all the pci cards in the system communicate with the system bios, each card would take available resources, if there was any conflict it would be resolved by the bus arbitration. Like most new standards it was not implemented well. In some combinations it just didnt work. In some older computers you could overcome this by going into the BIOS and assinging an interrupt to a PCI slot. Normally cards dont care what slot they are in, but if plugged into a PCI slot that has been given a set interrupt, then windows will reinstall the drivers for any card that has changed its interrupt. Somewhere in this shuffle an older ODBC driver was installed, and as this driver is used by a whole bunch of programs, you can almost guarantee one of the programs is going to have problems because it requires a newer version of the driver. The solution is to go back and reinstall the software on the system in the order that it was originally installed (windows 95 is a good reason to keep an install logbook an a computer system). Windows 98 has a new system information program includes a neat new tool that keeps track of any driver that is overwritten and allows you to reinstall the driver at the push of a button. Wonderful, except that this is Windows 98, and I have not the foggiest what is causing this. You seem to know what ODBC is, which is more than any book, document, or help file I have seems to know. What is it? My conclusion is that I am going to have to do drastic things to this system to get it working again. This isn't what I wanted to spend time doing. But since the only programs on there other than Office are games, I suppose there's nothing for it but to BE drastic. This isn't the way Windows 98 is supposed to work. == well, I can certainly sympathize with your woes regarding moving the hardware to a new case. I recently installed a cpu fan on my video card, an agp tnt. To do so, obviously, you have to remove the card. The installation went quickly and painlessly, and I reinstalled the card to the agp slot, taking great care to seat the card fully. I then rebooted the system, which showed the bios of the card correctly, and in the right place during boot, and everything seemed fine.... until I hit the desktop, where I was now in 640x480x16 colors. As I run at 1024x768x32bit color, that was not good. I attempted to change resolutions, but the system wouldnt allow any greater than 640x480. I shut down, and despite the fact that it made no sense, made sure the card was properly seated. Yes it was. Reboot. Check drivers. Win98 says Diamond Viper550, version xxx, all of which is correct. Still nothing above 640x480. So, I reinstall the drivers and viola, all is well. Given the fact that the drivers were present, and the system never showed any "installing new hardware/software" messages, I still dont know what happened. Argh. Win98 is better with hardware than Win95 was, and both are better than the dos days, but it aggravates when the system just dont work. Makes me leary of messing with the hardware, which may be the intent. Paranoia strikes deep in the heartland. Bryan Broyles
Across the pale parabola of joy... Ralston McTodd Same here. And ODD things happen. When things fix themselves and I never know what caused the problem, I worry a lot. == Jerry, One possible problem you may be encountering is having your CDROM as the MASTER of an IDE channel. CDROMs should always be slaves (even if there are NO masters on a channel). From what I read on the web page, I had exactly this configuration (CDROM as MASTER), and had months of good service. Then, the system started behaving badly. Short lockups at random times. Then the sytem crashes would start. Eventually, it would "loose track" of the CDROM under windows. After lots of headaches, and a lot of "education" about windows and the registry, I asked someone at the local computer games store about this, and when he dragged out that I had the CDROM as MASTER, his eyes went wide. Good Luck, and Enjoy! David M. Olsen [olsen@megarea.ds.boeing.com] Enjoy what? But thanks, I think I did not know that a CDROM drive ought to be a slave even if there is no master; in fact I am not sure I knew that you could have a slave without a master in an IDE string. In my case the Barracuda drive which has always run hot is making funny noises, so that's ready to go; the mother board is old and the bios can't be updated; and in general while it's a pretty little box and I may use it again, the mother board and the disk drive are shot, so it's time to do some replacements Thanks for telling me about CDROM slaves. READ ON:
Subject: CDROM Masters and Slaves Thanks for telling me about CDROM slaves. The trouble is, he told you wrong. Most CD-ROM drives come jumpered Slave on the assumption that they may be connected to a channel that already has a hard drive installed as master. But because many CD-ROM drives will be installed as single devices on an ATA channel and many of those will not have their default jumpering changed, most ATA interfaces are designed to function properly when a CD-ROM drive jumpered Slave is connected as the sole device on a channel. Theyre doing so outside the ATAPI specs, however, and this configuration is not guaranteed to work. When I build a system that has one hard disk and one CD-ROM drive, I always put the hard disk on the Primary ATA interface, the CD-ROM on the Secondary, and jumper both as Master (per the ATA/ATAPI spec). Ive never had any problem doing it this way. I have, on the other hand, seen numerous systems that dont work properly with a single Slave CD-ROM drive on a channel.
Bob
One of the nice things about BYTE was never having to appear naïve: that is, I could always call the BYTE editors about something like this. We had the greatest experts in all this world available any time I needed them. The neat thing is that this web site now operates that way. I suspected that the situation is as you describe but no book I have gave a definitive answer; the simple solution was to post the letter and wait for someone who really knows. I looked through my log books but did not find the notes, but I thought I had remembered situations in which a CDROM simply did not work as a slave with no master. It was late enough at night that rather than spend more time at it, I consulted the experts. I love this place. And more: My understanding, which appears to match yours, is that you must always have a master if there is a slave. In fact, there was a period of a few fixpacks where IBM enforced this with OS/2, failing to boot properly if it found a CD-ROM drive as a slave without a master. This rumor probably started for a couple reasons. One, many IDE CD-ROMs ship already jumpered as a slave to help ensure success for an inexperienced user who adds it to an existing hard drive. Also, as youve likely noticed, sometimes things dont work when everything is done correctly. So, all it would have taken is for someone to connect it as a slave and have it work to make a rule out of it. For myself, Ive had cases where an IDE CD-RW drive didnt work as a slave to a hard drive, but making the CDRW drive the master and the hard drive a slave worked. (Should have spent extra for the SCSI version, but I didnt think I would use it enough to warrent the extra $150). Kevin Krieser [kkrieser@delphi.com] Thanks: I have a new CD-RW and haven't decided how to connect it yet. I have also had some problems with IDE connections; as you say, the real solution is a good Ultra Wide SCSI, but that has some expenses involved
BUT THEN: The business about strapping IDE CDROM units as slaves might be nothing more than pidgin superstition but in my experience it holds true. Same goes for IDE ZIP drives. Ive even had both a CDROM and an IDE Zip drive on the same IDE channel and both had to be strapped slave before either would work reliably. Regards Ron Morse [rbmorse@ibm.net] Has anyone else had THAT experience? I don't recall that I have. I know I have had some real problems getting ZIP and CDROM working together but I don't think I ever tried both as slaves. This is getting interesting -- as things always do at Chaos Manor. Thanks. ===
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Saturday February 6, 1999
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"Ive known Byte Magazine for years, and believe me, youre no Byte Magazine" Ive been a fan of yours since October, 1983, which featured a cover story on my first computer: HP 150 with Touchscreen (for only $ 8,000 including business software, "leased at $200/month for ever"). I never discarded any issue of Byte as I considered it in the same class as a professional journal. With the arrival of each issue, I immediately turned to Chaos Manor, ignoring all else until I had gleaned the "inside story" or suffered through the latest insult to documentation intelligence and digested the valuable lesson in patient, logical troubleshooting. My biggest surprise at the Fall 89 Comdex: That so many "Professional" marketers of hardware and software were unaware of your column! Most memorable column: The day Thor struck Chaos Manor and "field tested" your collection of UPS and surge protection equipment. Since discovering them at a remote hotel at Comdex (Where the small, but interesting companies are found) I use:
They also make mil-spec UPSs for the armed services. I used their mil-spec units to protect the PC in a transportable micro-refinery destined for use in the third world. Their commercial units have nearly the same components, are less expensive than sine-wave, and respond in less than 0.3 milliseconds (Zero Switch option). My 750 watt model survived a near miss from lightning that hit my neighbors aluminum siding less than 100 feet away and knocked out all unprotected electronics. The same strike killed my $25 modem surge protection, but not my $400 SatisFaxtion board. A few years later, I learned that it successfully ran my cleaning ladies vacuum cleaner for about 10 minutes before I unplugged the beast. No damage. A similar load killed a 450W UPS (American Power Conversion) at work. (Replaced under warranty, but not without downtime. We made it up to APC with more purchases for "less critical" workstations. Control Technology replaces batteries (twice in and does upgrades and repairs (I overloaded the guy and held down the circuit breaker switchshame on me!). My UPS has kept me going 24 hrs/day for since June, 1991. Thanks again for the "tip" about how to find useful technology at Comdex. Most useful tip: Dielectric lubricant/grease for circuit boards and chips (memory, CPU, bios). I dabbed a bit onto all of my household telephone connections to reduce crosstalk and modem static. Canadian firm. Starts with P? They sent me a 30ml free sample, and a full literature set. I cant remember their name. Blush! Ill check an old Byte (see why I keep them?). Maybe they have a web site. Last word: I first noticed your computer column because Im also a Sci-Fi fan, a Navy junior, and a USAF Vietnam Vet who appreciates your fair and frank insights on military philosophy and the space program. Sorry, Ive not written before to thank you for sharing your thoughts and working so hard to bring a little common sense into the world. Thank you very much! Bob Huddleston R J Huddleston [rjhuddle@awod.com] Thanks for the kind words. Stabilant 22A, at one time marketed as "Tweak" although I have not seen that label in a decade, is the stuff, and it REALLY works wonders. I use it all the time and I have not mentioned it in a while. I'll have to put it in the column. The last address is have is D.W. Electrochemicals Ltd. 97Newkirk Road North, Unit 3, Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada, L4C 3G4 Fax = 905-508-7502. They made the "mistake" of sending me a lifetime supply of this wonderful stuff so I have had no reason to make contact with them for years. But I use it on everything including noisy telephones, scratchy hi-fi connections (which is what it was designed for) and as a lubricant for inserting PC boards. It REALLY works, and is vital stuff. I recall The Great Power Spike and that's sort of my favorite column too. I have not had any problems with my APC UPS's of which I have many, but my most critical operations are still on Clary UPS systems; their software isn't as good as APC but my oh my their systems are RUGGED and LAST AND LAST AND LAST... ==
From: Muhammad Al-Hashimi [mhashimi@cs.tamu.edu] Subject: Liunx does not boot I had the same problem. RedHat insisted that it was a 1024 cylinder issue (Linux partition crosses 1024 boundary which some older systems BIOSes cant handle). This was not the case for me. It turned out that I forgot to mark my Linux partition bootable when I created it (blush). That solved my problem. Hope it helps .I have a number of letters to this effect, and I suspect it's the case; but I thought the Druid did that? Apparently not! I am checking that now. It does seem odd. More in VIEW when I figure it all out. One of the "features" of a day book is showing all the things that make us feel stupid... Jerry, I remember having a similar problem. It turned out that I had forgotten to set the "bootable" flag in in DiskDruid for that partition. -- Talin ( Talin@ACM.org) Talins third law:http://www.sylvantech.com/~talin "Politeness doesnt scale." Ducky. But HOW? What is it you must tell the Druid, and when? And where? And how? More in VIEW. Jim Griebel [jgri@earthlink.net] Kind of a shot in the dark, Im afraid, because its not clear you have the same problem. Something like this happened to me and it turned out to be the motherboard BIOS. Some later ones are evidently sophisticated enough to know that theres no Windows-like boot partition on the HD. I "fixed" this by swapping motherboards, but Red Hats e-mail support said I could have just used DOS FDISK to set the partition active and everything would have been copacetic. Hope this helps. This may be the problem, but I cannot get FDISK or anything else to TELL ME THE NAMES OF THE PARTITIONS. I'll keep trying; but WHICH ONE DO I SET AS ACTIVE? More in VIEW. [We have solved the problem, and it's important. Read on.] And: Jerry Have you checked that the root partition has been set to active? Linux fdisk will allow you to inspect the current partition table (using the p extension), define a partition type (the t extension) and make a selected a partition active (the a extension). Regards Peter Morgan Peter Morgan [ptrmrgn@ibm.net] Well, no, not really; that is, if I knew which partition was what and which had what name, yes, it would in fact let me set one as active; but since I have no idea of which one is which, that does no good. There is not any "list what you got" command in Linux fdisk apparently. I suppose there's no need for one. Real programmers have eidetic memory. If I could figure what to make active I'd do that.
You mention you re-partitioned and re-installed RH5.2. In the installation there is a choice for installing lilo (boot manager) onto either the mbr or the start of the first HD partition. Sounds like you chose the start of the first HD partition instead of the mbr since you can boot from a floppy. Get your boot floppy and boot the machine.
boot=/dev/hda #boot from master boot record map=/boot/map # name and location of kernel files install=/boot/boot.b # the boot sector file prompt # gives you the prompt to choose labels timeoutP # how long to wait before continuing if no input image=/boot/vmlinuz #the name of the kernel file to boot
On the ODBC drivers, this sounded familiar so I checked back and found (using the viewdex ;-) in view 7 you mention some problems relating to Outlook and these drivers, perhaps this has something to do with the present problem? John Biel [jbiel@sympatico.ca] Thank you for being specific. At least this is something I could try. The OBDC problem isn't related: this is a dedicated Linux box, and has nothing to do with any other. It has never had "Micro$oft Windoze" running on it, so those problems are orthogonal. Alas. I can boot with the floppy, and log in as root, with the password we gave the system. That works fine. From root emacs /etc/lilo.conf bash: emacs: command not found So I fear I am not getting there; but I think you have put your finger on the problem. I now begin to think what I have to do is start over entirely, making sure I write down precisely what I am doing, and then maybe I can figure out how to make this thing find an active partition. The DRUID clearly can't do that in 5.2 although it did in 5.1. I really do thank you for giving me something specific to try. Meanwhile there was this exchange of letters with Thompson:
Well, I understand how you feel, but if you keep hitting yourself in the head you cant reasonably complain when you end up with a headache. Just remember, were doing this so they dont have to... I thought youd have problems using MS-DOS fdisk to set the active partition for just the reason you describe. Just a suggestion, but why not just boot MS-DOS, run fdisk, pick a partition at random, and set it active? Restart the computer from the hard disk. If it doesnt boot to Linux, just try making a different partition active until you find the one that boots. Its not elegant, but it should take a minute or less to test each partition, and thats less than youre spending on it now. Bob
> -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Bruce Thompson [mailto:thompson@ttgnet.com]> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 10:46 AM > To: Jerry Pournelle (E-mail) > Subject: RE: Linux not booting > Importance: High > > > Well, YES; but HOW DO YOU DO THAT? The partitition druid isnt doing it. Why? > Dunno. Ive never had Linux not make the partition active automatically. But what you describe is almost certainly because that partition isnt marked active. The easiest way to fix the problem is just to boot the system with a floppy that has PartitionMagic 4 on it and use PM to set the active partition. That way, you wont have to reinstall or change anything. > > Bob > > Robert Bruce Thompson > thompson@ttgnet.com> http://www.ttgnet.com> >
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I find the best tool for partition related stuff is the Linux fdisk. From what Ive read in View 34 you have tried to used it, as you say, "RED HAT fdisk doesnt seem to have a list existing partitions". Well, it does. At least if were talking about the same program. The command is "p" (print current partition table). When you run RED HAT fdisk, it outputs something like this:
Command (m for help): I have RED HAT 5.0 and mine does. If you press "m", youll notice this commands: p print the partition table a toggle a bootable flag
The command you need to use is "a". If you need more help, please send me (or publish in MAIL or VIEW) the output, errors etc. you get when using fdisk &; the rest. Catalin Drula Print. Now why did I think that Print had to do with a printer, of which this system has none? Stupid of me. I must have been brainwashed by Microsoft. Sorry, you don't deserve the heavy sarcasm; but to me PRINT means PRINT as in on a PRINTER, and "display" (which is what Micro$soft Windoze uses) means put the data on the console. Yes, I know, UNIX was devised in a time when we had glass TTY and real paper TTY and the difference between print and display wasn't all that important or real; but this is 1999, and my heavens to murgatroyd, surely some kind of translation device is possible? I mean-- The m command, in other words, gives information that is clear if you already knew it, and isn't too useful for those who don't know what they're looking for; and Linux like UNIX is shot through with that. UNIX I suspect was done that way deliberately, to make it impossible for non-gurus and their apprentices to use; Linx merely aped UNIX. But perhaps it is time to stop being in the ape group. Oh. Well. I fixed it by randomly setting partitions active until one worked; but it sure used more time than it ought to have.
Linux Boot, again : (see first letter.)
Youre right, of course, FDISK doesnt tell you the names. I am PRETTY SURE the one you want to set active is Partition 1, which is at the start of the disk and will be where whatevers telling you the disk isnt bootable is looking for the partition table/boot loader it cant find. This shows as "Non-DOS" in MSDOS Fdisk, with a size of 18 MB, which happens to be the /boot partition on my Linux disk. It may also be the only partition FDISK will allow you to set active, but Im less sure about that. I am fairly certain you have the same problem I did from looking at VIEW where you give "Cannot find any (active partition)" as the error message, or part of it. This is exactly what I got, from an Award BIOS. Jim Griebel [jgri@earthlink.net] Yes, I thnk it was this, and I think it's important. Note that the Druid did fine with a disk that ALREADY HAD DOS ON IT. That apparently set the proper active partition, and Red Hat 5.1 found that fine. But Red Hat 5.2 for some reason couldn't deal with that situation. Well, we have the solution: use DOS fdisk and set partition 1 active (it does no harm if you do that to 2, it just won't work); but I tell you there is nothing in the manuals about this. Thanks, to you and all the readers.
Subject: Still More Linux Boot 11f From: Jim Griebel (jgri@earthlink.net) Youre welcome, but let me follow up so you dont think you have a Linux problem because I dont think you do: Its that expletive deleted Award BIOS. Or thats how I see it. When I set up Red Hat 5.2 I did it on the Windows machine here. I bought a new motherboard at Frys to use in the Linux machine. These both come from the same maker EFA and both have Award BIOSes, but different versions. On the old motherboard Linux booted just fine. When I moved that HD to the new motherboard, I got that error message, which in full is: "Not found any (active partition) in HDD. SYSTEM BOOT FAILURE. INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER." I suppose the Taiwanese English should have been a major clue, but still I spent most of a day convincing myself that it was the BIOS that was refusing to boot Linux. I even did a new minimal Linux install on another old HD. Wouldnt boot on the new motherboard. Booted fine on the old one. Swapped motherboards and called it a day. From what I understand of the way the boot process works, heres whats wrong: The BIOS on the old motherboard just pulled in the boot sector and ran the little program thats in it. That little program doesnt care if theres an active partition; it gets told in explicit detail where to find the program its supposed to load as the next step in the startup process, goes ahead and loads it and starts it, and we boot. The BIOS on the new motherboard looks at the partition table on the HD, discovers theres no active partition, throws up its hands and refuses even to load the boot sector. If it would just load the furshtunkene thing, the way that BIOSes on Wintel machines have been doing for the last 15 years, we wouldnt have this problem. Thats why it worked with a disk originally formatted for DOS: You set an active partition in FDISK when you originally set up the thing. (This is a reflex action when running FDISK, at least for me, if I want a bootable disk.) The BIOS saw this and happily loaded the boot sector. I suppose that theres room for argument about whose problem this is, but Im inclined to blame whoever thought up this "enhancement" to the BIOS. On machines which dont bother looking at the partition table which is probably about 99% of them this problem just doesnt happen. As already noted the problem doesnt even occur on all Award BIOSes one of my machines has the problem, the other doesnt. Keeping up with this kind of thing is at least very difficult, especially for a small company like Red Hat. And theyre up against the old "fix something, break something else" problem Whos to say if they changed Disk Druid to automatically set a partition active to keep Award happy, they wouldnt give themselves a problem with some other BIOS? I agree that itd be nice if the fix were easier to come by; from the e-mail they sent me, Red Hat is aware of the problem and the fix, but go try to find it on their Web site. I know what Id think of this if I were a hyper-paranoid anti-Microsoft type. Im not one of those, but still If anyone out there has heard of (or can think of) a rationale for a BIOS looking at the partition table before loading the boot sector, other than insuring this is a 100% genuine Microsoft-formatted and partitioned HD, Id like to hear it. Thank you. Best explanation yet. Something good comes out of all this, I suppose, since I don't know anywhere else you can find all this.
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Sunday February 7, 1999You may find places on your new vehicle to use Stabilant 22A as well. It is widely used as part of the hop-up procedure on hot rods and race cars now that everything is microprocessor controlled. Underhood and off road is an interesting environment. Incidentally, do you happen to know whether some of the aircraft electronics were potted with asphalt which would weep and mildew when they parked the aircraft on the ground in South East Asia? Heard that but not from any reliable sources. Clark E. Myers I wouldn't Spam filter you! Makes sense, although I wouldn't have thought of it. Thanks! As to parked aircraft, I plead ignoramus. This is the first I have heard about that. ==
Dear Jerry: You have encountered one of the banes of a support persons existance. But it is not specific to RedHat or to linux. It afflicts all Operating Systems and much of the other software we use. The key premise is that all PCs are supersets of a well-defined and rigorously specified Architecture and Reference Platform. At one time, that was true. But some current designers treat as interchangeable "meets the specification" and "runs with todays Windows release". That is why NT, and RedHat, and SCO, and everyone else is forced to maintain "Approved Hardware Lists". My notebook has a Microsoft-logo "Designed for Windows 95" label on it. I have not been tempted to switch to Win98 - even though that migration "usually" works. I once wasted too many hours trying to install NT 4.0 on a Compaq Prosignia VS (which was once on the NT Approved list - but was deleted for exactly the same bug that I had been fighting. It took additional hours with the "Knowledge Base" to find the details). I am sure your Award BIOS is no longer on the Redhat list, either. We all have horror stories. But the root cause is a lack of quality. As long as vendors ship "probably good enough" products, support people will be busy. And not merely linux support people. -bill Thank you for the clarifications. Apparently we have hit on something general, and if Darnell didn't know about it, I can assume that a lot of others didn't either. Well, it's all grist for a columnists mill
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