Contents | MORE alt.mail: THE NEW ERA OF BIG GOVERNMENT Wednesday, July 18, 2001 |
Previous policy statements by both parties
proclaimed the end of the era of big government. The European view of government is that
it should take care of people; be a positive force; Do Good Things for people. For
over two hundred years the United States had a view of goverument best summarized by John
Adams: "We here believe that each man is the best judge of his own interest."
Tocqueville reported that in America, "the associations" -- volunteer groups,
including churches, but also including groups like the Elks, Moose, Eagles, and different
civic welfare associations -- did the charitable and public service works that government
was expected to do in Europe. Then came the 1999 State of the Union, which proposed over $100 billion in what opponents called nanny-state initiatives: the reinvention of Big Government. The Republican response made little mention of this. Is the new era of big government inevitable? Desirable?
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I have received this
in email at least three times. I have no idea of its origin, and no author has ever been
credited. Interestingly I have got copies from at least 3 senior civil servants. I will
hold my comments for a while and let others talk.
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks hes a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter so he dies out in the cold.
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks hes a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving. CBS, NBC, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can it be that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so? Then a representative of the NAGB (National Association of Green Bugs) shows up on Nightline and charges the ant with "green bias", and makes the case that the grasshopper is the victim of 30 million years of greenism. Kermit the frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper, and everybody cries when he sings "its Not Easy Being Green". Bill and Hillary Clinton make a special guest appearance on the CBS Evening News to tell a concerned Dan Rather that they will do everything they can for the grasshopper who has been denied the prosperity he deserves by those who benefited unfairly during the Reagan summers, or as Bill refers to it,. the "Temperatures of the 80s". Richard Gephardt exclaims in an interview with Peter Jennings that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and calls for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his "fair share". Finally, the EEOC drafts the "Economic Equity and Anti-Greenism Act". Retroactive to the beginning of the summer, the ant was fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government. Hillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant. The case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill appointed from a list of single-parent welfare moms who can only hear cases on Thursdays between 1:30 and 3:00 p.m. when there are no talk shows scheduled. The ant loses the case. The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ants food while the government house hes in, which just happens to be the ants old house, crumbles around him since he doesnt know how to maintain it. The ant has disappeared in the snow. And on the TV, which the grasshopper bought by selling most of the ants food, they are showing Bill Clinton standing before a wildly applauding group of Democrats announcing that a new era of "fairness" has dawned in America. === Big Government and How Far is Far Matt Beland (belandm@enteract.com) I dont think theres any question that the era of big government is on the way, for in fact it is already here. It began with FDR (voted most influential president of the century by a CNN Online poll) with the WPA and continued on to today. It also ties in with your discussion of the United States as Empire; as it is to the outside, so it is on the inside. No matter where in the world you run to, cameras or troops or both are not far away. These are the weapons of American Empire. Bombs to entertain the loyal subjects and punish those who would oppose the Emperor and cameras to influence and threaten. The one thing that makes this Empire different from the empires of the past is that there is no outside, there is no frontier. Every past empire from the Roman to the British collapsed because the borders outran the centers ability to control it. This led to frontiers where "malcontents" and romantic adventurers could run away from the stifling weight of the nannies and cops. As you said in your preface to Macauleys Lays, the best and the brightest of the British Empire went off to govern the colonies, while the rest stayed home to rule Britain. Is it any wonder the colonies grew up to overthrow and eventually rule the Empire? But today, there is no place out of reach of the government. Where is the India and the New World of today? Where can the restless go, for there are those of us who do not care for social security and universal health care. Not everyone believes that "Quality of Life" means a better diet, regular exercise, and a bigger TV set. Some of us want to feel the wind rushing by, the deck surging beneath our feet, to search for the Rocs egg, and to see how far is far. " raw red gold in the nuggets the size of your fist and feed that claim jumper to the huskies!" In small things and in large, we have as a people turned our backs on adventure. The small of not being able to find a good four-wheel drive vehicle that can handle off-road excursions without aftermarket add-ons. The large of using robot probes to do a mans (or womans) job. The reason for walking on the moon and exploring the deepest sea is only partly for the pursuit of knowledge. Robots can do the job, and do it well enough. But mankind did not spend uncounted millennia gazing up into the stars wanting and longing to know if lunar rock contains more anthracite than silica! An old explorer is a smart explorer, and a smart explorer probes ahead when he can, and looks before he leaps. But a stay-at home explorer is not an explorer at all. ==== With respect to your "big government" discussion... I think that President Clinton in his State of the Union address trying to buffalo youor, rather, not you but his left-of-center supporters (like me) who actually think that the U.S. would be a better place if its government did a little bit more and was somewhat closer to a western European social democratic-style government. When President Clinton announced $100 billion in new initiatives, I believe that he is counting the cost of his proposals (which will not be enacted into law) over the next five years. Think of something like $20 billion per year--$70 per person per yearin new spending proposals instead. Compare that $20 billion per year to the $9,182 billion forecast of GDP during the 2000 fiscal year. Total production in this country is something like $33,400 per person per year. Federal government non-interest spending) is some $5,570 per person per year. Thus the $70 per person per year of which Clinton talked so much in his State of the Union Address is a marginal changea marginal change that Clinton is trying to trumpet as bigger than it is to try to please his left. But it wont mark the return to big government. We have big government--$5,570 per person per year in non-interest federal spendingalready. We have had it since the days of FDRalthough some carry it back further, and blame Herbert Hoover or TR for bringing the idea that the federal government should be "in charge" of the economy in some sense into the mainstream of Americas political debate. What is that $5,570 per person per year spent on? Well, the big-ticket items are, in dollars per person per year: $1,370 Defense, plus veterans benefits, plus military retirement, plus international aid (the last of these a measly $70 per person per yearthe cost of empire, you might say; or the cost of the national security state, others might say; or the cost of the military that allowed our ideas time to win the Cold War, still others might say. $1,470 Social Security benefitsthere are, I think, good reasons for having a partly public pension. Social Security is not terribly generous, and entirely-private systems like Chile seem to burn up an awful lot of money in marketing and administrative costs. $1,280 Medicare plus Medicaidthere are, I think, good reasons for having large public health programs. The most important of them is what the insurance people call adverse selection: you need insurance in order to pay for treatment should something horrible happen to you, but for-profit insurance companies have every incentive to try to figure out who the bad risks are, and to refuse to insure them at anything but high cost. (But I dont think we get terribly good value for our Medicare and Medicaid spending for a whole host of reasons.) $540 Welfare broadly construed (food stamps + temporary assistance to needy families + child nutrition + earned income tax credit + foster care + other "income security" programs). A little over 1.5 percent of domestic product. These four add up to $4,660 per person per year. That is 80% of what the U.S. government does. And by and large I think it is reasonable. I think it is worth spending, and I think it is spent about as well as it could be, given the realities of how bureaucracies work. If I were suddenly named Czar of the federal budget, I would probably cut 1/3 out of defense (the Cold War *is* over, after all), keep Social Security benefits about where they are, shift some of Medicaid over to public health and try to think hard about how to get better value out of the hospital sector, and boost welfare spendingespecially because attempts to do welfare on the cheap in the past have left some horrendous penalties to enterprise and industry in the system, and because a frighteningly-large share of Americas children are poor. But Im a social democrat... The little-ticket items are: $196 Civil service retirement. $84 Unemployment insurance. $149 Federal transportation expenditures. $185 Federal education expenditures (including student loans). $65 Science and space $95 Health research and public health. $81 Natural resources and environment. $135 Justice and general government. $100 "Other" domestic discretionary. $25 Farm price supports. $22 Universal service fund (Americorps). Everyone can find at least three of these little-ticket items that should be zeroed out immediately, and at least one that should be tripled immediately... Sincerely yours,
Brad De Long [delong@econ.Berkeley.EDU] ==
I respectfully disagree with Mr. DeLongs contention that the Era of Big Government in the United States began with FDRs New Deal. I believe it began with the Civil War. While Im not one of the revisionists who downplay the (based upon my reading) integral motivating factor of the moral debate over slavery in the decision of the Southern states to attempt succession, I feel that the so-called states rights issue was of equal importance. Calhoun, et. al., made this very clear in the Senate debates of the 1850s. During the conflict, Mr. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, instituted varying degrees of Federal control over certain sectors of the economy, and in general did the sorts of things one must do in order to consolidate ones efforts to fight a war. Afterwards, during Reconstruction, the Congress repeatedly exceeded their authority in regulating everyday activities in the conquered states, and thus became addicted to that sort of power. The Radical Republicans greatly upset the balance of powers between the Executive and Legislative branches - the impeachment of Andrew Johnson was simply the most visible manifestation of the phenomena. Federal income tax followed in the early part of this century, and the rest, as they say, is history. As to Mr. DeLongs self-identification of himself as a Social Democrat, I would urge him to read two books - von Hayeks The Road to Serfdom and P.J. ORourkes Eat the Rich. Every person of Mr. DeLongs persuasion Ive ever encountered (including myself, when I was younger) has had a very poor grasp of the inextricable link between economic freedom and political freedom. They also have a stunningly naive, sunny view of human nature, assuming that all the equally fervored SDs like themselves, once they obtain access to the levers of power, will constantly work for the common good without thought of personal gain. Unfortunately, basic human psychology gives the lie to this proposition. How does a bureaucrat evaluate his own self-worth? Well, he cant make very much money (unless hes on the take), so the most important criteria he can use to measure success in his career are a) how much of the public purse he controls, and b) how much influence he has over the lives of other people via the good offices of his position. Being a sincere person, and we humans being the great rationalizers that we are, he will naturally conflate the expansion of his own sphere of influence with the common good. After all, hes only trying to help, right? Such is the stuff of which overweening bureacratic empires are made. And its the horrifying sincerity of the bureaucrats in question which best illustrates the insidious nature of this phenomena. We all want to think the best of ourselves, and it is this misdirected pride (or, less charitably, intellectual vanity) which allows us to decide that we are better equipped to run the lives of our fellow citizens than are they themselves. This is what Lord Acton was on about, and, as fallible human beings, we are all susceptible. Those on the Left, in their belief that humanity is perfectible (i.e., we can indeed construct New Soviet Man) - and their natural belief that they themselves are on the side of the angels - ignore the lessons of history and deny the basic tenet of humanity, that we all tend to act in what we at least -perceive- to be our own self-interest, regardless of the intrinsic altruism contained in our actions. Assuming that all monies sent to the public purse were used with complete efficiency, it is the non-economic impact of state interference in the economy which has the most serious consequences, in my opinion. Once youve established the principle that the money people earn doesnt really belong to them, but that you, the bureaucrat, will reward the little people by selectively doling back out some of the monies which were generated by the citizenry to begin with, youre set for life. This is the true nature of the so-called entitlements which everyone is so keen on. This is, at core, a rationalization of what would otherwise be known as highway robbery - rather than pointing a gun at you and demanding you hand over a percentage of the money in your wallet, instead we legitimize the mugging under the color of law, and then those who benefit from the earnings of others can rationalize away taking the money, having first ensured that it is washed by the sanctifying hand of government. To me, this is the equivalent of assuaging ones guilt by purchasing stolen property through a fence, rather than directly from the thieves themselves. The hypocrisy is stunning. The morally corrosive effect of the wholesale adoption of this stance should be self-evident. Its reflected in the depravity and moral poverty of our popular culture. Leftism is, at its root, a disturbingly attractive admixture of the rationalization of thievery coupled with intellectual vanity. Such a philosophy allows one to take from all and sundry without admitting that one is profiting from the work of others, while at the same time consoling oneself that it is really all to the benefit of the poor plebes, who otherwise wouldnt know any better. It also allows us to cloak the natural human impulse to exert power over others in the guise that its really for the good of the common people that we control their lives for them, rather than simply assuaging our own need for self-importance and stroking our own egos on the public stage. Donning the armor of self-righteousness, we can do no wrong, you see. Washington instinctively understood this all-too-common characteristic of humanity, and discussed it in his Farewell Address: They serve to Organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary forceto put in the place of the delegated will of the Nation, the will of a party; often a small but artful and enterprizing minority of the Community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public Administration the Mirror of the ill concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the Organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common councils and modefied by mutual interests. However combinations or Associations of the above description may now &; then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the Power of the People, &; to usurp for themselves the reins of Government; destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion. He was speaking of political parties here, in their 18th-Century form - merely substitute interest groups for party and the relevance to our current situation, in particular the modus operandi of the modern Left, is made apparent. He continues: It serves always to distract the Public Councils and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill founded Jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot &; insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence &; corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. The it being what in modern parlance we would call interest-group politics, the hallmark of the Left throughout history, from the Catalinian Conspiracy through the Terror of Robiespierre on to the identity politics and social engineering of the present day. In closing, I would like to leave you with a thought of Abraham Lincolns, taken from his Second Inaugural address; to me, this is the most concise and powerful argument against the forcible redistribution of wealth - the foundation of Leftist public policy - yet made: It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just Gods assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other mens faces; but let us judge not, that we be not judged. At least the Southern planters of the last century were honest in their choice of terminology. Forcing people to work for the benefit of others against their inclinations is simply slavery by another name. No amount of high-flown rhetoric or pious posturing will change this simple, yet illuminating, truth. Roland Dobbins < rdobbins@gte.net> // 808.351.6110 voiceI fear that you, like many of my friends heavily influenced by Bastiat and other Libertarian philosophers, may prove too much. I am not convinced that every instance of unfair taxation, or even conscription of labor, is equivalent to slavery. In the real world we must often be required to do what must be done in order to preserve the institutions that protect us; lest we get a great deal worse. The obvious example is a platoon of soldiers deep in enemy territory. If they retreat in good order, most will come out alive. If they all break and run, essentially no one will escape. But if all but one retreats in good order, while one breaks and runs, the defector will almost certainly survive while the others, weaker by one man, will each individually have a smaller chance of escape. Under those circumstances the officer -- if they haven't got an officer and don't elect one, they are likely doomed -- will shoot out of hand anyone who breaks and runs. Should he not? Now of course the modern welfare state is not such an extreme case, but then taxes aren't as severe a penalty either. For a man to love his country, his country ought to be lovely. Now I like Adams believe that in general each person is the best judge of his own interest, and I would thus leave much of the beautification to what Tocqueville called "the associations": volunteer groups. Churches and charities do a pretty good job of taking care of the wretched of the earth; and after all, the purpose of charity is to benefit the giver, not the recipient, a benefit lost if the charity is compulsory. Which still doesn't relieve one of some collective responsibility for everyone including what used to be known as "the undeserving poor", the "deserving poor" being usually provided for by both state and private efforts, and the more deserving the less likely to fall between the cracks. (With the exception of the children of the undeserving, who present a vexing problem of unbounded moral dimension: parental rights vs. the rights of the innocents to be socialized in some meaningful sense vs. the right of the society vs. the evil of instituting a bureaucracy that interferes with the rights of parents vs. -- well, you get the idea.) I think there is no general "solution" to the problems of coercion in the name of social cohesion vs. leaving people the fruits of their labors. After a lot of thought I have come to the conclusion that there must be mechanisms for requiring people not only to refrain from crime, but in fact to contribute something to the general good; but every such mechanism scares me because it is so easily subject to abuse. You describe the mechanism of abuse well: a bureaucrat who wants to do good but faced with a pretty good society that doesn't need him is likely, for what seem to him good motives, to seek out ways for him to "contribute" using other people's resources. My "solution" to all this is hardly new: I believe in the Philadelphia Constitution: leave most such matters to the states. I would go farther, and to the best extent possible leave those matters to counties, and below them to cities and towns. What you call slavery, in which I think you include taxed to be spent to benefit those who haven't earned any benefits, I would call necessary to proper government and society: but I would leave the power to do that sort of thing at a VERY low level. It may be a quirk of my nature, but I could contemplate my contributions to the general welfare being applied here in my city with much more composure than having them shipped off to Washington to support a bloated bureaucracy before some is handed back in "block grants" or "programs". As to your history, yes, the real restructure of this nation did happen in the Civil War and Reconstruction; but as late as 1938 I can recall that "don't make a Federal case of it" had more than ironic meaning, and the only real impact the Federal government had on our lives in rural Tennessee was that the County Agent of the Agriculture Department had a great deal of information on contour plowing and other worthwhile agricultural techniques all available for free; and he spent much time trying to make us all aware that such wonders existed. We are running an experiment of national social democracy; I suspect it will end in a disaster. Boswell: "Then, sir, you laugh at schemes for social improvement." Johnson: "Why, sir, most schemes for social improvement are very laughable things." Alas, when the FDA has Swat Teams which it uses to raid the Life Extension Foundation (www.lef.org ) in the name of making the country more lovely, it is time to stop laughing. === We have a great deal more mail on this subject, but let us let it rest for a time and revive the discussion later. It's not that it is uninteresting, as that it takes me a great deal of time to consider and write my commentaries, and while this place would be very dull if the only opinions expressed here were mine, it is not intended to be simply a kind of chat room. It's a delicate balance (And clearly my hope to close this off went awry. Perhaps after this round?) == I dont like seeing somebody like Bradford De Long, who has served his country by honorable work both in government and academia, patronized gratuitously. So if you read this, and agree with me that Mr. Dobbins comments are inappropriate, please post this e-mail. Mr. Roland Dobbins writes, in your Big Government discussion: "As to Mr. DeLongs self-identification of himself as a Social Democrat, I would urge him to read two books - von Hayeks The Road to Serfdom and P.J. ORourkes Eat the Rich." *Professor* De Long has almost certainly read not merely von Hayek, but far more economics texts than yourself, Dobbins, and myself combinedhes a professional economist whos served both in government and in two universities. Hes also partly written an economic history of the twentieth century, available on-line: http://econ161.berkeley.edu/TCEH/Slouch_title.html
I dont really think that Prof. De Long needs to read ORourke, though he may have. "Every person of Mr. DeLongs persuasion Ive ever encountered ..." This sentence screams out the bigotry of its writer. Suppose that Dobbins has actually met a statistically significant number of social democrats (say, at a minimum, 30). Suppose further that that set of 30 or more was a representative sample. In that case, if Dobbins claims to have met *none* of them whose maturity and cogency he respected, it is far more intrinsically probable that his own built-in mental blinders prevented him from fairly assessing them, than that over *ninety-seven percent* of all adult non-insane reasonably-educated social democrats are puerile and naive. "... (including myself, when I was younger) ..." De Long is 38 years old. How much bloody older does he have to be before hes considered a grown man by the no-doubt-venerable Mr. Dobbins? More generally: if Dobbins judgement was poor at age 38, why is it likely that it improved as his youthful vigor atrophied? It seems to me that most of us are roughly as intelligent by young adulthood as we will ever be, and that what age brings is not better judgement but, *with effort*, more patience and broader sympathy. (Without effort, it seems, age merely brings self-congratulatory sourness and intellectual shrinkage.) "... has had a very poor grasp of the inextricable link between economic freedom and political freedom." Before anybody makes any more cheery and witless generalizations like this, would they please *read* De Longs writings on this topic? There is a very large anthology of them available from his Web page at:
I cited one good example of De Longs views on a different thread (the determinism discussion), but Ill re-cite it here for the differently clued among your readers: http://econ161.berkeley.edu/pdf_files/Overstrong_%28complete_draft%29.pdf
For those who cant bother to click their Web browsers: DeLong not only knows full well about the trade-off between economic and political freedom, he spends a large portion of his writings on economics discussing the difficulties of constructing a society that will be politically viable in the short run yet economically dynamic in the long run. "They also have a stunningly naive, sunny view of human nature, assuming that all the equally fervored SDs like themselves, once they obtain access to the levers of power, will constantly work for the common good without thought of personal gain. Unfortunately, basic human psychology gives the lie to this proposition." See De Longs discussion of political killings ("Power and Genocide") in his on-line economics history: http://econ161.berkeley.edu/TCEH/1998_Draft/five/Slouching2_5genocide.pdf
Again, Dobbins is so totally entranced with battling strawmen that he apparently doesnt realize that his gibes arent merely rude but grotesquely easy to factually refute by the counterexample of the very person hes deriding. Yours for quality control on the Web, --Erich Schwarz, Ph.D. (Caltech, 1995) Well, you are perhaps harder on Mr. Dobbins than he deserves, but I admit I thought of editing out the suggestions that Dr. DeLong read Hayek; I'd be more than astonished if he had not. As to that volume of O'Rourke, I haven't read it although I may one day. I don't suppose it tells me a lot that I don't know, although O'Rourke is wonderfully readable, and generally quite accuracte. Still, Dobbins raises a central point, perhaps condescendingly, but perhaps not. Adams put it more gently, that we regard each man as the best judge of his own interest. It's pretty hard to believe in social democracy without some kind of assumption to the effect that government can allocate resources better than individuals, and particularly better than the market. Surely this is the central thesis of social democracy? Now of course there is a sense in which everyone agrees with that; it is summed up in the joke, "How many armored divisions does it take to prevent the Russians from overrunning Germany? None, the market will take care of it." When it comes to the survival of the nation, we do rely on government rather than individual decisions. Shortly beyond that point come the disagreements, of course. While it is easy to show that, so far anyway, the market allocates resources best if your goal is an increase in resources and satisfaction of economic wants, it's not so easy to show that this is the right goal. It was noticed long ago that few are willing to die for a standard of living, and a state that has no attractions other than economic generally finds itself without defenders. (I think it was Bertrand Russell who noted the futility of dying for a standard of living.) We've known since Macciavelli that hiring soldiers is a bad business: they will either ruin you by losing their battles, or find it is easier to rob the paymaster than to fight for a living. Either way is ruin to a Republic, and that has been proved again and again. Leaving one to wonder just how states do endure? Is taxation slavery? Surely not, at least not always. And the best answer I know is that there isn't much of an answer. There is no more sense in the myth that 50% + 1 of the people voting in an election will know best than in saying that an aristocracy brought up to rule will know best or a meritocracy recruited by scores on competitive examinations will know best. Why should one be loyal to a nation? Because of an election? But surely "You obey me because your fathers swore to my father" is equally valid as "because this document adopted 200 years ago says that we rule this way"? My chief argument against social democracy is that it hasn't worked very well; it doesn't allocate resources well, and the administrative costs are hideously high compared to, say, private charity. The United States spends enormous sums on public education with rather poor results. By centralizing we assure poor results everywhere, not just in incompetent pockets. The welfare system supports a vast army of people who would be looking for work if there were no welfare system, but who produce nothing by their present employment. As O'Rourke pointed out in one of his essays, there can't be any poverty in the US, because if you divide the amounts spent fighting poverty by the number of poor people the quotient is larger than our defined poverty level. What's wrong here? But of course it's the cost of the system of distribution. Our social democratic experiments have resulted in some 40 Federal agencies with law enforcement powers and each of them has a SWAT team; surely at least a minor threat to liberty? Raids on health food stores in which the FDA SWAT agents have machine guns in hand, threatening store clerks, and all over the allegation that some of the products are mislabeled. Not harmful. Just mislabeled. The question becomes, are these not inevitable results of social democracy? When I took political science in about 1960 Professor Hugh Bone, a social democrat, used to argue that the tax dollar was the best dollar he spent; he got more for that than for any other money he spent. At the time this seemed questionable, if arguable; but surely few believe that today? In any event, I agree that Mr. Dobbins has been less respectful to Professor DeLong than he should have been, but I doubt any great harm has been done. Does it help if I tell you that Dobbins is almost entirely self-educated? A remarkable academic achievement, but accomplished with less opportunity than you or I had to learn the standard manners of academia. Perhaps a bit of indulgence is merited...
A few points of clarification --- First of all, Professor DeLong didnt identify himself as such; I certainly wouldve used his title had I known who he was. And I wouldntve suggested he read von Hayek, Id instead have asked him -why-, if hes studied the Austrian school seriously, hes still a Social Democrat? Thirdly, I stand by my assertion that to adopt Social Democracy as ones political credo, one must be either naive or a cynical power-grabber. I chose the more generous interpretation. Fourthly, as I read over Professor DeLongs on-line resume in detail, he strikes me as being one of those bureaucrats who means well, but whose sense of duty lies in meddling in peoples lives because he knows better than they how their money should be spent. Look at the so-called achievements he cites from his time with the Clinton Administration: Cut the federal deficit by more than half. - an outright falsehood, based upon the sort of two-bit accounting tricks and misleading language which have persuaded a majority of Americans that there is such a thing as a "Social Security Trust Fund. Arrant nonsense, of course. Expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit. - a program which is probably the single most abused loophole in the tax code, as Professor DeLong should know. Its a multi-billion-dollar boondoggle, and ought to be repealed. Contained the winter 1994-1995 Mexican peso crisis. This was a stop-gap measure which has done nothing to resolve the fundamental problems of Mexico; namely, unbelieveable corruption &; cronyism, poor monetary policy, and the hugely distorting effects of public-sector meddling in the Mexican economy. Made the federal income tax more progressive. Class politics at its finest. Taxation as a means of social engineering, rather than revenue generation - more bureaucratic meddling. Signed the Family and Medical Leave Act. Which has put a huge burden on private businesses, and is yet another example of how bureaucrats think they know best to run your business for you. Established a voluntary national service program. Which is a joke, and a resevoir of patronage for various leftish supporters of the President. Staffed with lots of ACTION types and other Leftish undesirables. Increased Head Start funding by 20 percent. An expensive program with no provable benefit whatsoever - another political sacred cow which mustnt be criticized because its "for the children". Accelerated compliance with Montreal Protocols on global warming. Social engineering masquerading as science. We have no idea if global warming is occurring - 25 years ago, the same people were on about global -cooling-. See _Falling Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, &; Steven Barnes for a good general synopsis of the argument for the nonspecialist. So Professor DeLong seems to be someone who has wreaked considerable havoc in his career, and who is now in a position to commit further mischief by warping the minds of young, impressionable college students. You know, I think that I shall Also, Id like to point out that I am no libertarian, though I used to be one of those, too - I dont think all taxation is slavery, only about 50% of it. And as far as my patronizing Professor DeLong, whats wrong with that? After all, his stated policy aims and the so-called achievements in public service of which he is so proud are the direct result of a patronizing attitude towards the citizenry, intellectual vanity at its worst - and hes had real power to make his views law. Yes, I tend to be a bit sharp towards people who insist they know how to spend my money more wisely than do I myself, and who actively work to implement policies which limit freedom and empower bureaucracies at the expense of the citizenry. I guess Im just crazy like that. Roland Dobbins < roland_dobbins@yahoo.com>=============================== I have a problem here: I can spend my entire life moderating this debate, and I don't really have time to do it. I tried to cut it short earlier: the problem here is that nothing new is being said, nor is likely to be. It seems clear to me that the only way the non-productive can survive is by the transfer of resources from the productive to the non-productive. At that point the debate begins: what conditions can be put on this? If the productive have been conquered and enslaved, not many. If the non-productive are suitors, entreating for succor, as many as you like. In the real world it's a combination of demonstration of neediness and the implied threat to disrupt the orderly world. "Poverty is the true cause of crime." It is unlikely to be the sole cause, and may not even be the principal one: the number of people who steal bread to feed their families is very low, and the motives of most criminals are not nearly so purely survival oriented; but there is a temptation to buy off the criminals. Some call that compassion, some call it prudence, and some call it paying the danegeld. Then there's the question of who is non-productive. Some who don't produce are necessary: fire fighters come to mind. How do we decide which non-productive are necessary to survival of the social order? Teachers? Professors? But are they aiding social cohesion or undermining it? Neal Schulman's first novel Alongside Night has a scene in which the government collapses; the new anarcho-libertarian President announces that all government bureaus now own their facilities, but will get no new ones and no money: if they want to be paid they can sell their services to whomever will buy them. It's not a realistic scene, but it's one worth contemplating: how many government services would we buy if we were entitled to choose? And of course that depends on the definition of "we" since some of us want one thing and some another. Welfare recipients certainly want welfare case workers to continue, or at least those who write the checks. And so forth. The one thing we are not going to do here is settle these matters by arguing about them. I intend to add one more letter, this time from Professor DeLong, and my own reply at the end, and then this matter is closed. Fair warning: the next letter is fairly long.
You had despaired finding a "general solution to the problems of coercion in the name of social cohesion vs. leaving people the fruits of their labors. After a lot of thought I have come to the conclusion that there must be mechanisms for requiring people not only to refrain from crime, but in fact to contribute something to the general good; but every such mechanism scares me because it is so easily subject to abuse..." But you do know the solution, probably better than I do: people-powerbut power to the people that is then exercised in a manner that makes the people free, rather than a manner that makes them Equals or that makes them Patrons and Clients. As was said long ago: "...Our system of government favors the many instead of the few. That is why it is called "people-power." Our laws afford equal justice to all. Advancement in public life follows from a reputation for capacity rather than social standing. Social class is not allowed to interfere with merit. Nor does poverty bar the way: a man able to serve the state is not hobbled by obscurity. "The freedom we enjoy in our government extends also to ordinary life. Far from exercising jealous surveillance over each other, we do not feel called upon to be angry with our neighbors for doing what they likeor even to indulge in offensive and injurious looks which inflict no positive penalty. But this tolerance in our private life does not make us lawless citizens. Fear is our chief safeguard, teaching us to obey the magistrates and the lawsparticularly those that protect the injuredwhether they are on the statute book or belong to that code of unwritten laws that cannot be broken without disgrace... "We trust less in system and policy than in the native spirit of our citizens. In educationwhere our rivals from their very cradles seek "manliness" by painful disciplinehere at Athens we live as we please, and yet are just as ready as our antagonists to encounter every danger.... [w]ith habits not of labor but of ease, and with courage not artificial but natural... We have the double advantage of escaping hardships in anticipation of danger, and yet of facing hardships in the hour of need as fearlessly as those always suffer them. "Nor are these the only points to admire in our city. We cultivate refinement without extravagance. We cultivate knowledge without effeminacy. We employ wealth for use, not for show. We place the real disgrace not in the fact of poverty but in the declining of the struggle against it. "Our public men have their private affairs to attend to in addition to politics. Our ordinary citizensoccupied with the pursuits of industryare still good judges of public matters. Unlike any other nation, we regard those who take no part in these public duties not as lacking ambition but as useless.... Instead of looking on discussion as a stumbling-block in the way of action, we think debate an indispensable preliminary to any wise action at all. "Thus in our enterprises we present the singular spectacle of daring and deliberation, each carried to its highest point, and both united in the same persons. The prize of courage goes most justly to those who know best both hardship and pleasure, and yet are never tempted to shrink from danger..." The problem, however, is figuring out the best way to implement this solution...
== The long quote above is from Pericles, the funeral oration; one might remember that not long after that speech, those who heard it voted to condemn their generals without a trial, suspended the Constitution, and "crowned their acts of monstrosity by condemning Socrates". JEP
Two quick points... First, to assumestronger than that, to *know* beyond a shadow of a doubtthat all those with whom one disagrees are either utter fools or complete knaves is almost always a mistake. There are utter fools and complete knaves in the world. But most of those with whom one disagrees are notthey see the world differently, and hold their views for what seem to them to be good reason. To know that all with whom one disagrees are utter fools or complete knaves means that one has foreclosed the chance of learning anything: (a) they will soon stop talking (for they will not be learning anything from the exchange either), and (b) what they have to say will simply pass unhead. Second, let me pick one point at random to answer...
The only response that I can think to make is "So what?" Lending money to Mexico so that it would not default on its obligationsand send the country spiraling into the same chain of bankruptcies and shutdowns that we experienced in the Great Depressiondid not make the lion lie down with the lamb, or allow us to beat all our spears into pruning hooks either. What it did do was to keep the length of Mexicos 1995 recession short, at one year. And it did allow those politicians in Mexico who want to deregulate and democratize to continue their work. Whether their reforms will succeed or not is anyones guess, but it is surely in their interestand our interestto give them the opportunity to try. As the French sociologist Raymond Aron once wrote, in politics the choice is always between the preferable and the detestable. To reject a move toward the preferablelike containing the 1994-5 Mexican financial crisison the grounds that it doesnt carry us immediately to Utopia is to doom us to something detestable. And now Im out of time... Brad DeLong
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"Now in the long run this [way of summarizing the quantity theory of money] is probably true.... But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. **In the long run** we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is long past the ocean is flat again."
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The devil is always in the details. "Power to the people" usually ends in plebiscitory democracy, and that generally ends with the many plundering the few to the point that the few turn to violence: tyrants, after all, generally arise when class warfare has become intolerable. Mussolini began as an anarcho-socialist, and Fascism was intended to be a means of escaping class warfare by requiring the classes to work together. It may or may not be a cogent observation, but Huey Long of Louisiana always said that Roosevelt was bringing Fascism to America, but under the name of democracy. Politicians always claim to be doing what is best for everyone, bringing true power to the people without class warfare and without fear or favor, leveling the playing ground but ensuring that there are no big winners or losers in this newly fair game, protecting the weak, making humble the proud, encouraging production and discouraging idleness and sloth, ensuring that government will not take from the mouth of the laborer the bread he has earned by his labor, and -- well anyone who likes can continue with a few more yards from that bolt. But it all comes down to how much will be taken from the productive to be given to the non-productive, and as Laski said long ago, politics is the art of determining who gets how much and from whom. And today's politicians, faced with a surplus of some $70 billion, are certain they can spend that much better than the people who paid the money: in fact, today I learn that the social democrats want to raise taxes by another $45 billion. That is a very long way from John Adams view of each man the best judge of his own interest. It may be that you know how to spend my money for better purposes than I would, and you'll see to it that it goes to a good cause; and you won't charge more than you're worth for doing it. But surely it's not entirely monstrous, or even grossly disrespectful, for a few of us to disagree? But I think we have had enough of this discussion. God knows I have.
Heres my two cents on the Big Government issue. First of all, I want to comment on the issue of "each man is the best judge of his own interest". The problem, as I see it, is that while most people are very good at making decisions about their local interests, they are often very poor about making decisions that concern the collective group to which they belong. A classic example of this is the NIMBY ("Not in my backyard") syndrome. It benefits society to have some place to put criminals or mentally disturbed people, but in building a prison or a mental hospital, someones individual interest is going to have to suffer for the good of all the other individuals. When the needs of the collective and the needs of individuals come into conflict, you have a dilemma. It also seems to me that an individuals long-term interest is more closely aligned with the collective interest than an individuals short-term interest. This is partly because of the "what goes around, comes around" principle - the idea that whatever you, as an individual, input to the collective will probably eventually impact your life in the future. Unfortunately, it seems that humans arent very good at long-term projections either. In my experience, the kinds of decisions which are produced by a group of people will depend strongly on how those people are organized. A committee which is organized based on consensus will produce different decisions than one which is based on majority rule. A bureaucracy will make different decisions, given the same inputs, as a legislature. It seems to me, then, that as decision makers, the public, the bureaucrats, and the legislature, each have various blind spots, and moreso each has _different_ blind spots. The public, for the most part, has the blind spots that I mentioned in the first paragraph. The bureaucrat has the blind spots described in Mr. Dobbins posting. And so on. My own personal "myth of legitimacy" is that each of these bodies, in intercourse with one another, will to a certain extent compensate for the blind spots of the others. One hopes that there wont be any blind spots that are shared by all, but then theres no way to tell that is there? Now I want to bring up the specific issue of welfare. It seems to me that there are a lot of broken individuals out there. By this I mean individuals who are incapable of competing or functioning in what we consider normal ways, i.e. getting a job, buying a house, owning a car, etc. This may be through lack of education, birth defects, sickness, malnutrition, drug addiction, old age, whatever. It seems to me that some of these problems could have been prevented, had they been diagnosed and treated early enough, and it would have been to societys benefit to do so, even in purely economic terms (one more productive worker in the workplace). Of course, there are also a lot of just plain "bums" or "slackers", but in my opinion this is an overstated problem. Yes, theres a lot of bums in Berkeley and downtown SF. But most of the people Ive known whove been "on welfare" only did it because they were in dire economic distress, and got off it as soon as they could. One close friend of mine had an unwanted pregnancy when she was younger, but did not wish to have an abortion; she now owns her own massage business and her intelligent, hard-working son just graduated from high school. Putting aside the notion of bureaucratic inefficiency for a moment, I believe that there is a certain merit to "investing" in the well-being of the population. Im especially in favor of investments that are targeted towards early diagnosis and treatment of conditions which debilitate an individual later in life, and cause him or her to become a drag on society. It seems to me that in order to maintain a certain level of economic well-being for the country, there is a particular optimal spending level that is needed to be spent in the public interest, and this level is not zero. That is to say, the "harm" done to society by taxation must be balanced against the "harm" done to society by having broken people running around dying on the streets (some of them perhaps committing crimes as well), and that a middle ground should be found between these two extremes. Of course, if one is truly rich, one can isolate ones self from all of this. One can buy an estate in the country, drink only filtered water and breathe only filtered air, and live in an iron fortress, being careful to never let ones children play outside for fear they will be kidnapped. One can in fact create the illusion that the world is a fine place, that poor people dont exist, and that the rest of societys problems are of no concern. For myself, however, Id never be happy in Heaven, knowing that others were burning in Hell. -- Talin ( Talin@ACM.org) Talins third law:http://www.sylvantech.com/~talin "Politeness doesnt scale." Well, I don't find anything you said there objectionable or even very controversial. The problem is institutionalization. It has yet to be proven to me that we need large government agencies to do much of the work you think necessary. I would think that welfare is a local problem, to be taken care of at a local level, and the argument that the local agencies haven't the money holds water only if you don't look at how much those local areas send to Washington. If you need a collectivity, the county works pretty well, and if that's not enough, the state. Surely I don't need an enormous building in Washington to figure out what to do with the local village incompetent? But your final statement pretty well echoes what we said in INFERNO, and surely is acceptable to most. We all want a lovely society in which everyone has opportunities, we all get to keep what we earn, and -- The devil is always in the details. And this, I think, really is enough. - 30 -
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