Green Dreams revisited 20110831

Mail 690 Wednesday, August 31, 2011

re: Green Dreams: suppose that Climate Change is real?

I do not read Stephen King or other horror writers. I don’t have to. I got you.

What you wrote is truly frightening. Of course, climate change is real. That we know. The question is whether Global Warming is real and, if it is, is it Manmade.

The Greens affirm the answers are ‘Yes’ and ‘YES’ and act on that affirmation. In my experience, they have no interest in collecting more data or entertaining any argument opposed to their views. In other words, left to the Greens, the course you outlined will happen.

This means that if the Greens win, industrial farming will end; modern transportation will end; modern communications will end (no satellite launches); modern, densely populated cities will end. We shall be reduced to subsistence farming and chattel slavery will return.

You wrote in _A Spaceship for the King_ that horse collars ended slavery on earth (by dint of making horsepower a better bargain that manpower). Horse collars may have made slavery less economically viable, but slavery did not become a bad economic bargain until the advent of steam-powered machines.

If the Greens outlaw machines, . . . God, I can’t even complete the thought. You brought me a degree of horror beyond my imagining.

Live long and prosper

h lynn keith

If CO2 is really a pollutant and can cause runaway heat generation, then I think we are doomed: I do not believe there is any way that we can halt industrial development before the critical levels of CO2 are reached. My own conclusion is that the AGW hypothesis is at best not proven, and the likelihood is that it has a lot of factors wrong – and that there are remedies. The important matter is to be wealthy enough to implement those remedies. I do not know the optimum CO2 levels in the atmosphere. It may well be that the optimum level is higher than t present, perhaps as much as double. Still, before we allow that level to double, it might be well to have the means to reverse that level and bring it back down. Plankton blooms, some equivalent of kudzu that can be sealed away, or other biological methods; even a nuclear powered chemical/mechanical system; whatever, we need not build it until needed, but it would be well to know that we could do that. The alternative, it seems to me, is to submit to a Malthusian future.

And the data on AGW are not all in on just how true all this is.

A sad, sad day in the annals of science, when evidence is suppressed for political purposes.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100102296/sun-causes-climate-change-shock/

Jim

 

Re: Irene & Anthropogenic Global Warming

Jerry,

I’m sure you have already been apprised that global cyclone activity (hurricanes, et al, not meaning tornadoes) is at a 30 year low. The last significant storm that I recall moving up through that part of New England was hurricane Gloria in 1985, which made landfall somewhat farther East on Long Island than did Irene and was still a hurricane afterward when it made it onto the mainland.

Yesterday FoxNews interviewed a geologist by telephone, who has done research into an 1821 hurricane. That storm took roughly the same track as Irene had through Saturday, skirting the coast and striking many large cities along the way. He was not specific about where it made landfall with respect to New York City, and perhaps that exact information is not available now. He did mention that the storm surge caused the Hudson River and the East River (which are on the West and East sides of Manhattan respectively) to join across Canal Street (aptly named, I suppose!), temporarily cutting the island of Manhattan.

Given that CO2 did not rise until much later, we might presume the 1821 storm was not the product of human-caused global warming. Then again, I did once read in Scientific American that humans farming rice in Southeast Asia 10,000 to 12,000 years ago might have brought about an end to the last ice-age, so who knows? I’ve yet to see any word on what species were culpable for ending each of the previous glaciations. Given the precautionary principle, we should all hold our breath for a while, just in case! 😉

Regards,

George

Climate datum

Here in Austin today, we tied our all-time high temperature reading,

112 degrees F, which we hit once before, in 2000.

We’ve also blown well past the previous record of most days in a row

over 100 degrees.

Best,

Jon

Jonathan Abbey

Green Dreams Response

I am a bit surprised that you did not mention the Corn Laws of England. Remember when the King wanted to keep people at starvation levels to "save the forests"? We’ve seen this scam before.

Also, we have a way out of the game. We go to space. I didn’t need a global threat to want to go out there; I see nothing but clowns down here and a few people who have some sense. Most of us with sense want off this rock. We know that, someday, the Earth will either a) be swallowed by a red giant Sun or b) turn into a ball of ice if the sun doesn’t make it this far. So, save the planet, live at starvation levels, etc. if you like. I don’t want to wait around here with the squeeling mouths and bleeding hearts to die. Sorry, I’m not that stupid.

Nobody seems to think beyond the short-term when crating policy. This nihilistic view of global warming alarmists is not helpful. If the future is that bleak, why don’t these people do the decent thing and take a graceful exit? Let the rest of us who want to try give it a try and let those who want to die do so. I do not see why I have to hold their hands as they jump off a cliff.

You hit upon an important point in your essay as well; I will underscore it. The common factor in all this alarmism is the end of industry, the end of prosperity, the end of freedom, the end of security. That is their focus. Their focus is not ice ages or global warming, their focus is on the deindustrialization of humanity. No matter how the problem manifests, the solution is always the same — a nihilistic philosophy that might as well flow from a modern-day death cult.

Life is a contest. You won the first race when you were the first sperm to go into the egg that eventually became you. You kept winning again and again. Death stikes around you daily, yet you remains as though immortal. The voice of darkness always tells you that you can’t do it. It always says that it is hopeless and pointless. If that is true, then why should the voice of darkness speak at all? I yell back into the shadows, "Fine, maybe you are right. But, right now it is time for the light to shine and I will not kill the light inside when I can scatter the darkness." As you say, "Despair is a sin".

When in doubt, become elite or die trying.

—–

Most Respectfully,

Joshua Jordan, KSC

Percussa Resurgo

Pace ‘Ken’.

‘The Russians had much worse masters than we do, and with much tighter control – yet even they could not hold power forever.’

The new boss looks much the same as the old boss, to me – the main difference is that he isn’t preaching chiliastic communism (and has detargeted his missiles, although that takes only about 30 minutes or so to correct), but instead has fallen back on good, old-fashioned Russian nationalism and envy of the West.

Roland Dobbins

Without outside pressures, ‘hydraulic’ societies – those in which the state controls the means of food production and distribution – tend to be stable and could in theory last forever. Or so Wittfogel concluded. They don’t have to evolve.

I greatly prefer Putin to Stalin.

Ken Wrote in the mail:

<.>

You talk about our Masters, but that is where your argument falls apart: they may THINK they are our masters, but they cannot hold power. The Russians had much worse masters than we do, and with much tighter control–yet even they could not hold power forever.

</>

https://jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/?p=1775

I wonder what the people who died in gulags or ended up in mass graves would have to say about this position?  Thank you for your input. 

—

Most Respectfully,

Joshua Jordan, KSC

Percussa Resurgo

 

Civil Defense / FEMA

You are so correct, Jerry! As an advanced Civil Defense trained person in the 60s, we were able to handle many aspects of rescue and recovery during Hurricane Betsy bettern than FEMA did during Hurricane Katrina. We were taught municipal infrastructure, advanced first aid, setting up emergency hospitals and morgues, with appropriate processes to help relieve the ailing, injured and families of the deceased. We did not have the disasterous results that FEMA incurred in New Orleans. Our group, 16-18 year old Explorer Scouts, had 92 patients in an emergency hospital that we set up in a junior high school. We had three nurses to administer medications; but we performed all of the other treatments required to prepare our patients for transfer to hospitals, three days later, after rooms became available. We also trained the community in proper hurricane preparation so they would not be panic-stricken. Civilian Defense works. It much less costly, also.

Roger Bull

Juno Spacecraft Images Earth and Moon

Jerry,

Wowzers! The picture fills me with awe (in the old sense of the word).

Regards, Charles Adams, Bellevue, NE

<http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2011-271>

 

Jerry,

NASA Tech base "eroded"

http://fcw.com/articles/2011/09/01/agg-nasa-technology.aspx?s=fcwdaily_020911

Hun

Domino’s to serve pizzas on the Moon, apparently • The Register

Domino’s Japan revealed plans for a lunar pizza outlet, I think this means as much as Pan Am’s moon passenger list, but it’s cool, Tim Harness.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/02/pizza_chain_plans_restaurant_on_the_moon/

 

Tidbits

Jerry,

Four brief items. First, while this tale is even more serpentine, I find it stunning that you can work for a union but have your pension paid by the state pension system in Illinois:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/watchdog/ct-met-pensions-villanova-20110902,0,1997273.story

Study Points to WTC Cancer Link (at least possibly):

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904583204576544713561820254.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

Dealing with hard questions, Cantor says we gotta pay for Irene relief by cutting something else. He’s being vilified:

http://www.politickernj.com/50668/christie-versus-cantor

Some historical items on South American leaders:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/8735411/Eva-Peron-kept-Nazi-treasure-taken-from-Jews.html

Regards,

George